So the other day, I was playing Mole Man:



…and when he was hit with an attack, we were trying to figure out if he could try to use Super Senses to evade the attack, and then use Mastermind if the Super Senses role failed.

I know we’re supposed to quote the powers in question, but I can’t find the most recent wording online to copy and paste, and I honestly don’t feel like typing them out, sorry… but both Super Senses and Mastermind begin with, “When this character would be hit…”.

Last I had heard, when multiple effects/powers trigger at the same time, the active player gets to decide what order they happen. In this case, the active player is the attacker, so of course they’re going to choose Mastermind first, as opposed to giving Mole Man a chance to evade the attack first with Super Senses. So why bother even giving a character Super Senses and Mastermind at the same time? Am I missing something?

What if MM has no one to Mastermind to? Then you will be happy for those Super Senses.

Ok, good point… but if he does have someone to use Mastermind on? His Super Senses just isn’t used unless the attacker decides to let him use it for some reason?

Since they activate at the same time, the acting player decides in which order.
And they most likely going to have you resolve MM first.

THIS is correct. It puts the benefit on the attacker in this case, because playing against a player who takes advantage of this sequencing prevents you from seeing if you'll make the Senses roll before deciding to Mastermind or not.

it's a silly rule that active players gets to choose... defensive players should be able to choose how they defend... hopefully this is something they change soon.

You can find the PAC and the Comprehensive Rulebook here:
https://wizkids.com/heroclix/gameplay/rules-format/

-J

Dang. Well it’s not the answer I wanted, but hey, such is the game. So many Moloid lives could have been saved…

Thanks for the input, everyone!

Great to know! Bookmarking now, thank you.

Wouldn't hold my breath.
This has been kept through at least two major rules changes.

Hey, it used to be that you didn't get an option because the character having damage masterminded to it wasn't the target of the attack and being the target of the attack is what's required for Super Senses to trigger. So given that fact I'll take the option presented any day of the week.

Uhhm... The charter you Mastermind the attack to still doesn't et to use Super Sense.

MASTERMIND When this character would be hit by an opponent’s attack that deals damage, you may choose an adjacent friendly character that wouldn’t be hit by this attack and that is less points or shares a keyword. That friendly character instead becomes a hit target of the attack, even if it’s already a target (or would be an illegal target).

12.3d “Becomes”
Some effects cause a character to become the target, or hit or missed target, of an attack and use the term “becomes.” When this occurs, the affected character(s) automatically become whatever the effect specifies and bypass any effects that would cause the attack or hit or miss to be illegal. (Comprahesive ruleboon p. 27)

The charter you Mastermind to automatically becomes hit and does not roll for Super Sense.
Same with roll 12 on attack.

Not that I am for it, but a way around it would be to consolidate Shape Change and SS into Shape Change (giving it a new name like "Evasion").

I have to say in all my years, there have been few times when this issue of "active player decides defensive power order" has come up, but that does not mean it isn't a bad interaction. I get the sense that creating new rules to massage the problem would end up creating an even bigger mess.