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Clixhunter on Outwit VS defensive powers - Actually there are several Bricks who have terrible low defenses and rely entirely on their defensive powers to work. Absorbing man, Scientist Supreme, Annihilus, Appocalypse, Captain Brittan, Colossus, Mandarin, Man-Thing, Morgain Le Fey, Mr. Fantastic, Rhino, Ulik, Wrecker
That's just the Marvel figures, who cost over 100 points who have 15 or lower starting/max defenses. All of which have some defensive power to augment their low defenses.
I would think it safe to say that any figure with a 14 or lower starting/max defense is totally relyant on defensive powers...In Marvel we have : Absorbing man, Scientist Supreme, ArchAngel, Blob, Brood Warrior, Castillo, Colossus, Destiny, Electro, Firestar, Kirqi, Pastey Walker, Hepzibah, Human Torch, Iceman, Dr. Curtis Connors, Madame Mask, Magick, Man-Thing, Marvel Girl, Val-or, Morlock, Psylocke, Rhino, Sabertooth, Sandman, Justice is Served, Sentinal Trooper, Sidewinder, Silver Samuri, Storm, SWAT Heavy Weapons, Sammy Liebman, Umar, U-Men, Reneration, Virtigo, Viper, Wolverine
That's a lot of figures who are completely vulnerable if their defensive powers don't work as advertised. Then there's 206 point Dormmammu, who only has a 16 defense. Or what about Thanos at 185 points who only has one superpower....it at least should work for him.
The nature of Outwit/Attack which happens the same turn is just too crippling. Outwit is highly versitile, it shouldn't be crippling to the other team. Anything else you outwit, your opponent gets a chance to react to, but against defensive powers your opponent is never given a chance to react. He gets outwitted and the rewards from outwit get reaped before he gets a chance to do anything. As for range being an issue for Black Panther....Black Panther has no ranged attacks, in the comics he doesn't hide in the shadows and affect the battle from afar. He jumps in there and mixes it up. At "Mix it up" range he should have plenty of outwit targets. I think you guys are just used to Outwit being a crippling weapon, and using Black Panther as a long range outwitter. Outwit being a crippling weapon VS figures with defensive powers is unbalancing. And Black Panther skirting around the outside of the battlefield hiding behind stuff and having a huge effect on the outcome of the battle is totally un-comic realistic. Figures with no range value were given that for a reason...they aren't ranged fighters...these figures get in there scrap at close range for a living.
I wanted to do away with the FREE ACTIONS ENTIRELY. It makes play simpler, Plus it seems unfair in the official rules that Perplex and Outwit figures get to have the enormous effect on the game that they do even on turns when those figures pass and clear. Making them consistant along with the consistant Range = 4 for non-ranged figures made the rules simpler to remember if everything works that way. It also gave some value to figures like Vet Scarlet Witch who under these rules at least has double the range of Destiny (Seems fair since she costs twice as much and really doesn't have anything but PC going for her.)
Wakanda, I just don't understand how you can think the regular FF TA is useful. Let's put aside the one and only relyable use of the Official rules FF TA, that being pushing Alicia Masters to sacrifice herself to heal the team one click. This is totally un-comic realistic, and I believe Alicia is on the short list of retired figures anyway. So that tactic asside, is the Official FF TA useful? This game snowballs. The initial wave of combat gets that snowball moving one way or another. The FF TA does absolutely nothing to help you at that point in the game. Asside from the sacrifical Pog (which requires un-superhero like play to us), it is your opponent who controls when your figures get KOd. Hence it is your opponent who desides when you get you use your team ability. Your opponent can manage your team ability and use it when it is to his best advantage, not yours. You can't rely on the power...so if you push your figures, what happens if your opponent elects not to KO one of your crippled figures that you were anticipating he would....now you've pushed a bunch of your figures when you maybe normally wouldn't and are fighting at lower effectiveness...so maybe he then beats down all your pushed figures before slowly KOing them one at a time while keeping you beat down. It's all in his hands, and it's not such a huge gain (one point per KO'd figure) that you're going to get much benefit from it. If you're playing the whole Fantastic Four and each of them gets KOed in turn you're only receiveing a maximum of 6 total clicks of healing distributed at times of your opponent's choosing. One 8 point paramedic can do that much healing in one turn at a time of your choosing, all to a single figure who may need it most. The Fantastic Four have never been considered torunament competative, and a high cost useless TA is in part to blame for this. The FF is actually one of the teams I play the most as a testbed to evaluate game balance against. When someone thinks a particular rule is unbalanced I have them build a team to exploit this problem and I play a series of games against it with theme teams and the Fantastic Four is one of these theme teams I use often. I've been winning right around 50% of the test games with the Fantastic Four under this TA with these rules. They seem to be competative. Even though you built your team with "the Pog" instead of a Mr Fantastic or Medusa, you were still able to put the TA to use. The turn you KO'd Bullseye you wouldn't have hit were it not for the effectiveness of this TA.
Thanks for the feedback. Wakanda, you're the first person who's actually reported that they didn't like the Charge/Running shot thing in about 30 feedbacks. I can see what you're saying about the ability to move and attack with everyone making the game have more options, hence be harder to predict opponent's choices. But most people don't view this as a bad thing.
As for Running shot/Charge getting Robbed. Yes, to a degree what you say is true. Under the official rules where Running shot, Charge, HSS and now Transporter, were the only figures who could move on their own, (TK not withstanding). Those powers became very critical. Another way to look at it is, the rest of the figures all kinda #### being totally TK reliant. By giving all figures Charge/Running shot, now no figures ####, and the gap between Charge/Running Shot/HSS figures became smaller...so yes they lost some value relative to the other figures. But the RS figures with RCE and the Charge figures with CCE I think got a boost. And full range move and attack for the rest does mean a higher probability of getting in the first attack, and though it's toned down, by the nature of the dials, there is still some snowball effect going on.
Thanks, particularly to Super_Member, ClixHunter, and Wakandaman for participating in this game. I very much enjoyed playing with you guys. If you ever want to participate in one of the forum games I run, you are more than welcome. And also thanks for the stuff you guys pointed out earlier in this thread. I will be posting version 1.33 of the rules today, and in there are some changes/fixes prompted by your contributions. The same URL I gave you earlier will take you to the new version. Thanks for the help.