The thing that arguments like this miss is that penalities/drawbacks/whatever from feats like Pounce, Double Time, and Mental Shields are quite different than the drawbacks to feats like Sidekick or LMD.

In the first category, the drawbacks are intimately linked to the actual usage of the feat: if you want to do X with the feat, then Y occurs as a result. Whether that Y is a click of damage, AV penatly, reduced number of targets, etc. doesn't matter: it happens because you use the feat. Simply choosing to not use the feat (which is allowable according to the rule book) elimates both the benefit AND the penatly (essentially the character is no worse or better off than if they had not had the feat assigned to them at all).

In the second category, the penatly exists separately from the benefit. LMD reduces damage (benefit) but also prevent the character from being healed (which has nothing to do with reducing damage); since these two effects are not linked in any tangible way, it would seem theoretically possible to choose to not use the feat when only the 'bad thing' happens... which completely violates the purpose of having the penalty in the first place.

That is the distinction between feats that can be turned off and feats that can't be. You can't get something for nothing.

Did you mean to start that statement with 'I think', or maybe 'In my opinion', or possibly 'I believe that'?
Otherwise, where are you getting your info?
The phone booth is fine as-is.

Endurance 5 points
Prerequisite: (Standard Attack) and (Standard Damage)
Choose a character. When the character would be dealt pushing damage, you can instead choose to deal no damage to the character and put an endurance token on this card. If there are endurance tokens on this card when the character is given a non-free action, after the action resolves, roll a d6. On a result of 1 or 2, deal the character unavoidable damage equal to the result plus the number of tokens on this card, then remove all tokens from this card.

First off, you cannot cancel something mid-action

If they take an action, get a token which is placed on the card, they have to resolve this IMMEDIATELY

After an action resolves means right then, do not do something else first. After does not mean later the same day.

Or perhaps....

Is most likely to be erattaed to.... and was most likely intended to.... and may be often ruled by judges at Starro events as....Based on thread responses posted by the RA.

The Phone Booth has a small problem with a legal Infinite turn when presented with a willpower figure. Its likely then that the Phone Booth will be either once per turn or once per character per turn. Is this not so good for Gypsy? possibly

I think he meant 'the intent of the object's design was not to be some weenie rules lawyer abusive object'

You realize that the first pushing action occurs before an ENDURANCE token is on the card so no roll is made for the first pushing action.

The player is trying to be sneaking by turning it off for all of his other non-free actions. But as Normalview pointed out, "thats not how feats work."

The Wizkids Rules Arbiter says that it should be once per turn, but he needs to confirm with the designers before making it official.

So as it stands now, it is unlimited until we get something official.

`Le

Ah, but that is exactly how feats work.

LOSH Rulebook, page 40:
"A feat assigned to a character is in effect during an action unless the player who controls the character indicates at the beginning of the action that the feat is not being used. The feat resumes its effect immediately following the completion of an action during which it is not used."

Feats work exactly like optional powers. You can cancel them at will, but the difference is that it comes back when the action is completed.

Normalview is saying that feats with multiple non-connected powers are not optional, but this is completely false since there is nothing in the rulebooks, faqs, or errata that says this, nor has WK given any official rulings on the matter in the Judge's forum.

ALL FEATS are optional. Period.

And that is my problem. As a I judge, I *will* rule that some feats are not optional, but I also know that officially I am contradicting the rules to do so.

`Le

And that is exactly why Endurance can't be used the way the player you described tried to use it (see post #20 where I explain why).

No, actually, I never said that.

First off, feats as a whole aren't actually optional (at least, not the way the rule book defines optional in the glossary). There are some feats that do indeed have (optional) in their text, but by and large you can simply choose to use or not use a feat. That is definitely the common usage of optional, but since so much of this game relies on very specific wording, it is good to make sure we use the proper terms.

Secondly, I wasn't stating a position one way or the other on this issue; merely pointing out how your earlier posted attempt to lump all penatlies derived from feats that are not tied to specific actions isn't really the best way to look at things. In fact, if you check my post again, you'll see that I do state that 'it would seem theoretically possible to choose to not use the feat when only the 'bad thing' happens... '

Again, not 'optional' as defined by the game, but yes. According to what is actually documented, all feats can be turned off and I never disputed this. But it does indeed go against the spirit (intent, if you will, though I know some people dislike that term ) of several feats and that is why I consitently rule that those feats can't be turned off.

Would I like official documentation to back that up? Sure, that would be great.

Am I also comfortable enough in my authority as a judge to say "this is the way it is" and stand by my ruling, even though it isn't necessarily spelled out in black and white in the rules? You bet I am.

Sounds like you are in the same boat, too... so why not let this dead horse alone for now. Until we do get some kind of official documentation (if ever), our own personal rulings on this is the best we've got.

It is odd that with all of the items in the FAQ WK would not go back and update easy ones like LMD with one sentance.


Alot of this thread has gone from people stating how rules work to how they think they should work.

I think the telephone booth being infinite is sill but until changed it is what it is.

On feats:

Feats are ALL optional we get that directly from the rules.

So in essence you could turn off LMD to be able to heal a character ... its stupid but until they change it (the way they did Lobos white power) it is what it is.

On endurance:

By my reading of the rules you cancel the feat until the completion of an action. Completion to me means after everything that is part of that action is done and overwith and you are moving on to the next acton. Endurance would be part of the resolution of an action, that would be before the "completion of the action" but after the action is givin (resolution is still part of an action) and the feat does not return to an active state till after the completion (stated by the line "following the completion of an action" pg 39 LosH rule book)

So until WK says other wise these loopholes in the rules exist. Now i would probly give anyone that did this at my venue a good slap upside the head of a junkshot for doing this but it is within the rules ... i really hope they don;t read this post and find out that it works O_O

You cannot choose to turn off endurance.

Endurance can be thwarted, however.

Rather expensive mechanism for 1 free wp push though...

Yes yes. we are in the same boat! I just don't want people reading this thread to think that there is any official word that "feats are not optional".

In the end, what you and I do is best -- use the rule book as a guide, but still make rulings (even ones that go against the book) in order to keep the game fun and fair for everyone.

And in the end, that's what its all about!

`Le

Oops, don't mind this one, I hit the wrong button. Nothing to see here.

I said "does", not "doesn't".

The ruling they use seems to be that you have one target when you are not taking feedback. If you target two or three, you take feedback. Thus you cannot get the benefit while ignoring the drawback.

Norm said it on the rules forum when someone asked if giving Gypsy five free actions on the first turn was legal. He seemed really adamant that it needed to change and would be in the next errata.

Aye, that's the best anyone can do at this point. I still think the best guideline is that a feat is optional when the drawback or cost is directly linked to the use of the feat, and they are not optional when they are not linked, because then the costs could be canceled which would defeat the whole point of the feat as designed.