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Considering that we currently can't use bystanders in thematic teams, I thought I'd check out their tactical value in non-thematic teams. The bystanders without powers or team abilities are pretty easy to rank - you just pull out those that fall within the point value you can afford, and compare them to see which have the best numbers.
This is how I'd rank all of the more complex bystanders in terms of overall usefulness. Most people will probably disagree with something on my list, but that's okay. These rankings are necessarily going to reflect the kinds of strategies that I've used and had success with; maybe you make other strategies work better!
I've ranked all of the bystanders that I own or could find online, but I'm sure that I missed at least one. WK's figure gallery and HCR's Units section don't have complete listings for some reason! So here's the mostly-complete list:
1. Alfred Pennyworth (Hypertime) Team Ability: Batman Ally Point Cost: 6 Range: 4 /
7
8
15
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
Alfred is so good that he's traditionally considered cheese; he's in the Encyclopedia Brittanica's entry about Cheese. A bystander with Stealth makes for excellent "mobile blocking terrain", but more importantly he can provide his team ability to friendly wildcards.
2. Val Cooper (Mutations and Monsters) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 7 Range: 6 /
7
9
16
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
I might get some disagreement about ranking Val so highly especially before she's even been played, but I think she's excellent value. Her combat values are quite good for a mere 7 points; while she only has a damage value of 1, sometimes that's enough to make a difference. Put Val in hindering terrain and she can block lines of fire and throw around the odd attack.
3. Jarvis (Infinity Challenge) Team Ability: Avengers Point Cost: 4 Range: 0 /
6
7
13
0
KO
KO
KO
KO
You can only play Jarvis in games that ignore retirement, so he's always a candidate for Thunderbolts. That's nine points to add any team ability you can think of to your wildcard team. Even without Thunderbolts Jarvis is still exceptionally good; a free-moving bystander has a much greater ability to tie up opposing characters.
4. Alicia Masters (Infinity Challenge) Team Ability: Fantastic Four Point Cost: 5 Range: 0 /
5
4
10
0
KO
KO
KO
KO
Use the Fantastic Four alternate team ability and Alicia is a 5-point bystander with a potential 19 defence; try hitting that with Energy Explosion! Thus, her status as a tie-up piece is unparalleled. Or you could simply use the original FF team ability for some easy healing for your Fantastic Four members and wildcards; push Alicia and all of them heal a click.
5. Amanda Waller (Origin) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 12 Range: 6 //
6
9
16
2
KO
KO
KO
KO
Amanda is one scary lady. Her combat values are respectable, she can target two characters in a single attack, and her Willpower allows her to push without knocking herself out.
6. Mary Jane Watson-Parker (Infinity Challenge) Team Ability: Spider-Man Ally Point Cost: 5 Range: 0 /
7
6
14
0
KO
KO
KO
KO
Mary Jane is the cheapest wildcard in the game, so if you need to add an extra Superman Enemy to your force to give General Zod Outwit, she's the way to go. She can act as a reasonable tie-up piece by copying Mystics, or mobile blocking terrain by copying Batman Ally. There are a few team abilities that Mary Jane doesn't really benefit much from, however, and she has no combat ability whatsoever.
7. Amadeus Cho (Mutations and Monsters) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 11 Range: 0 /
8
7
15
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
Excello When Amadeus Cho is given a power action, he can use Outwit.
Amadeus is the cheapest Outwitter in the game, which by itself guarantees a high rating - but he is also the most limited, which keeps him from scoring too highly. Amadeus can't use Outwit on consecutive turns, or after moving, or being taxied; and he uses up a precious action from your allotment when he does so. With his middling defence value and no defensive ability it won't be hard for your opponent to KO Amadeus before he uses Outwit more than once or twice. But that could easily be enough to make him worth the points.
8. Jimmy Woo (Avengers) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 10 Range: 6 /
8
9
16
2
KO
KO
KO
KO
Jimmy is dangerous because of his basic combat aptitude. He has range, a decent attack value, and enough damage value to get through Toughness. Willpower allows him to base an opposing character and push to attack the next turn without automatically giving up 10 points to your opponent.
9. Lockheed (Sinister) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 8 Range: 4 /
9
9
15
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
Lockheed isn't a great tie-up piece, as his defence value is too weak in close combat. However, with Leap/Climb he can always get to where you need him to be (preferably on hindering to get an 18 defence against ranged attacks) and plink away at your opponent's medic or Perplexers.
10. Space Phantom (Supernova) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 9 Range: 0 /
6
8
15
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
Space Phantom is the quintessential tie-up piece, with Plasticity to keep opposing characters from breaking away and Shape Change to give him a chance to foil attacks. And they count as generics! I've got half a dozen of them!
11. Dallas Riordan (Sinister) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 6 Range: 0 /
6
9
15
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
Dallas is a pure tie-up piece, using Combat Reflexes to increase her effective close-combat defence to a worrying 17. If that's all you wanted from a bystander then you can get this more cheaply (using Forbush Man, for example), but Dallas also has a good attack value and a damage value above zero.
12. Swarm Team Ability: None Point Cost: 11 Range: 6 /
9
6
16
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
The only bystander with Super Senses! It's interesting to compare Swarm with Space Phantom - for two points more you get a similar ability to avoid attacks, a decent 6 range, but swap Plasticity for Leap/Climb (both good powers, but I prefer Plasticity in this circumstance).
Some players will be concerned that Swarm is only a bystander rather than having a proper dial, but as a character who was defeated by Mary Jane this is arguably an accurate representation. If only they were archenemies...
13. Oberon (Collateral Damage LE) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 10 Range: 0 /
5
9
15
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
Oberon's Willpower is an always-welcome power for a bystander, and Close Combat Expert gives him an ability unusual among bystanders - he can punch through Invulnerability/Impervious! His defence value is nothing special, unfortunately, so he may not get the chance, but no character can simply ignore Oberon.
14. Henry Peter Gyrich (Fantastic Forces) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 7 Range: 4 /
6
8
15
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
Another bystander with Willpower! Henry is okay but his combat values don't allow him to stand out from the other five. He is cheap enough to include on Crime Syndicate teams to soak up action tokens, however.
15. Ken Hale (Avengers) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 14 Range: 6 /
6
9
17
2
KO
KO
KO
KO
Ken Hale is dangerous! A 17 defence with Toughness actually makes it non-trivial to KO Ken, and he could potentially get some decent attacks in. His cost of 14 points is perilously close to "real character" values, but he could be worth it.
16. Sgt. Whitman (B.P.R.D. Action Pack) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 10 Range: 6 /
7
9
15
2
KO
KO
KO
KO
Sgt. Whitman isn't bad (9 AV and 2 damage with Willpower isn't bad!), but you can get better. For the same points you could use Jimmy Woo, who has a higher Speed and otherwise identical combat values. For two extra points you could use Amanda Waller and get an extra range target.
17. Joe Chill (Justice League) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 6 Range: 4 /
7
7
15
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
Joe Chill's Stealth makes him useful in a similar way to Val Cooper or Alfred, but his combat values are a bit of a let-down. A 7 AV and 4 range just isn't terribly threatening; Alfred is better at the same cost, and Val is much better at just one additional point!
Joe Chill really deserved two targets - how else did he KO both of the Waynes without pushing?
18. Wild Sentinel (Fantastic Forces) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 13 Range: 6 /
6
8
15
2
KO
KO
KO
KO
One of the few generic bystanders, the Wild Sentinel has some potential in combat. With the Armour Wars battlefield condition in play they could throw down some Energy Exploding pain! However, they're a bit pricey to field in any competitive manner, especially as Armour Wars negates the benefts of their Toughness.
19. Thor, Frog of Thunder (Supernova LE) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 13 Range: 4 /
4
9
15
2
KO
KO
KO
KO
Thor is a fun bystander to field, but man is he slow. Leap/Climb mitigates this weakness a little, but it's still far too likely that Thor will be unable to engage the enemy under his own power.
20. Native Warrior (Mutations and Monsters) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 11 Range: 0 /
7
9
16
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
They're more mobile than Thor but less threatening in combat. As generics it should be fun to throw a couple of Native Warriors onto a team with Miek!
21. Leslie "Rocky" Davis (Justice League) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 10 Range: 0 /
8
9
15
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
Rocky has some potential as a tie-up piece, with a high defence in close combat and Flurry that gives him an additional chance to strike. Unfortunately his damage value is too weak to threaten most characters, but there are circumstances where he'll be able to use it well. Is he worth 10 points? Maybe not.
22. Marvin and Wendy (Origin LE) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 9 Range: 0 /
7
9
14
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
Marvin and Wendy are similar to Rocky, but their defence power is optimised for staying away from opponents... making Flurry a bit extraneous.
23. Security Guard (Hypertime) Team Ability: Police Point Cost: 6 Range: 6 /
7
7
14
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
His combat values aren't anything special, but his team ability could make him worth using on a heavily ranged force.
24. Walter "Prof" Haley (Justice League) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 7 Range: 0 /
7
8
16
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
Prof is one of many bystanders with Willpower, and one of a more elite club - bystanders with the dolphin speed mode! He's mostly a novelty, though, because you can definitely find more useful Willpower bystanders. On a force with the common Aquaman from Justice League he could be handy, but otherwise you should spend a couple of extra points for Jimmy Woo.
25. Matthew "Red" Ryan (Justice League) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 7 Range: 0 /
9
8
16
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
Red has plenty of maneouverability but mediocre offensive and defensive capabilities. For 7 points he might be worth the risk, but you can find better.
26. Colleen Wing (Fantastic Forces) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 10 Range: 0 /
7
8
15
2
KO
KO
KO
KO
Colleen's a one-trick pony, but it's a potentially devastating trick. Keep her next to your TKer, and on any turn that you have a couple of spare actions you can throw her in for up to 6 clicks of damage! Although 10 points for a mediocre 8 AV means that you could easily be throwing her out there to simply miss. Take your chances if you're a gambling man, or invest in a more reliable bystander (or a decent feat) if you like safe investments.
27. Lila Cheney (Mutations and Monsters) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 6 Range: 0 /
10
7
15
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
Phasing/Teleport is an interesting choice of powers for a bystander. She should usually be able to get to where you need her - but will she make much difference once she gets there?
28. Harvey Bullock (Legacy) Team Ability: Police Point Cost: 12 Range: 6 /
5
8
14
2
KO
KO
KO
KO
Waaay too expensive for what he does. Toughness doesn't really make up for an easy-to-hit 14 defence, and you're better off using the Security Guard if you want to take advantage of the Police team ability.
29. Sin-Eater (Sinister LE) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 9 Range: 4 /
5
9
15
2
KO
KO
KO
KO
Sin-Eater has a good AV and reasonable damage for the cost, but his poor range and mediocre defence means that he's very unlikely to actually use them. A range-focus character needs better than a 4 range.
30. Ma Hunkle (Legacy) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 9 Range: 0 /
5
7
13
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
The liabilities of Harvey Bullock are present in Ma Hunkle - and she lacks the Police team ability to add that utility to your force. A 7 AV and 1 damage doesn't pose much threat, and a 13 defence is easy to strike with any 2+ damage attack.
31. Misty Knight (Fantastic Forces) Team Ability: None Point Cost: 12 Range: 4 /
7
8
14
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
Misty has the potential to deal strong damage, but it's never likely to happen. She runs up to an opposing character with a heavy object, and either pushes to maybe hit with her 8 AV, or clears and thus gives your opponent plenty of time to deal with her - a 14 defence isn't much defence at all. She's just too unlikely to be worthwhile to spend 12 points on her.
Overall: There are half a dozen characters with Willpower, so you are well-supplied for that power; an equal number of bystanders have Leap/Climb. Three characters have Stealth (from a power or team ability), and three have the potential to deal 3 or more clicks of damage. Two characters have Energy Explosion, two have Flurry, and two have some kind of attack avoidance power. Only one character has a special power.
Though one thing swap henry peter gyrich and prof haley's spots haley costs the same but has a 1 more move 1 more defense and the dolphin symbol for the SAME cost so prof should rank higher the henry.
Am I the only one who is missing something? How in the world can you give Cho a power action? He has no powers!
You can give him a power action just to activate his Special Power (see this thread)
Back on topic:
Great list .
I still haven't played most of my BSTs (except for Doug Ramsey in New Mutants team - it's a shame he doesn't have the X-Men TA BTW), and particularly Oberon, but here's a thematic way to up his defense: Sidekick him to Mr. Miracle .
From personal experience, I'd rate both Jarvis and Alicia higher than you did (Jarvis might even be #1).
Jarvis and T-bolts adds an amazing amount of flexibility to any team for less than 10 points, including that Batman TA that Alfred is so famous for. He doesn't have the combat chops that Alfred has, true, but seeing as how he isn't locked into any particular TA, that makes him much better in my mind.
You hit most of the high points with Alicia, but you forgot one important trick. Since the alt FF ATA is a replacement value, it is compatible with Support (Support only ignores modifiers). That means not only do you have a tie-up piece with 19 DV, your other FF figs have a 10 DV when the medic tries to heal them... and even the SHIELD Medic should be able to hit that
You hit most of the high points with Alicia, but you forgot one important trick. Since the alt FF ATA is a replacement value, it is compatible with Support (Support only ignores modifiers). That means not only do you have a tie-up piece with 19 DV, your other FF figs have a 10 DV when the medic tries to heal them... and even the SHIELD Medic should be able to hit that
Oh, I've certainly used that trick in the past. Nobody is very happy to see Scientist Supreme healing a wounded Sue Storm.
How can you not rank Forbush man in the top 10? Hes not even on the list? Yeah his movement and attack are low but his defense ( a natural 17) is great. Add that to the fact that hes only 4 points and youve got yourself a tie up monster. In reality, thats what really makes a good bystandard. Yes they can be decent to attack and maybe do one or two clicks, but in reality we use them when we want to tie someone up. (or when they have a really good TA, but theyre all retired i believe.) Do you not think of people with pots on their heads as cool? (and yes i know he has no TA or powers so he shouldnt be on the list...but he doesnt need them! hes got a pot on his head!)
While you definitely earned the rep, Lila C. deserves to be higher than 27th. When it comes down to it, very few pogs represent anything but tie-up fodder/meat shield (exceptions are Jarvis, Alfred, MJ, Alicia, Waller, Woo), and only a few pieces are better at it than her because she can move across the board so easily with Phasing. And then consider she's dirt cheap. I'm thinking 18th at the lowest, maybe up to 13th...
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And don't give me the "But I love Shatterstar, and want to play five of them!" NO ONE loves a Liefeld creation that much. NO ONE.
Quote : Originally Posted by Ace0Spadez83
We just call "lamest cheddar-spread meta-wang team" a "heroclix team"
How can you not rank Forbush man in the top 10? Hes not even on the list?
For the same reason that Lian Harper isn't on the list - it doesn't matter how useful the bystander is (and Lian is bar none the best for her points), this is a ranking of bystanders with powers/team abilities.
Jimmy Woo is some kinda legend 'round here. The opponent always forgets about the will power, and he always hits.
Run him in, and then shoot. He is totally rad. Statistically accurate, though experience with the particular pog tells me that he should be higher on the list.