Howdy!
Okay, so try as I might, I just CAN'T seem to get the whole 'stairs vs. ladders' thing down... (especially in regards to close and ranged combat attacks between two characters in adjacent squares at the top and bottom of ladders or stairs...)
The LoSH Rulebook says (in the 'Elevated vs. Grounded' section):
"Characters that are in adjacent squares but at different elevations can't make close combat attacks against each other, but they may target each other with ranged combat attacks..."

The two squares a LADDER occupies (one on elevated terrain and the other on grounded terrain) ARE NOT 'adjacent, but at different elevations', right? They are just at different elevations, yes? The 'top square' of the STAIRS and 'second to the top square' ARE adjacent but at different elevations, correct? I've come to know this (or at least BELIEVE it's true, lol ), but is that explicitly stated somewhere, just to know I'm at least starting from the right spot?

Which leaves me with a few questions:

1)A figure with Stealth, and occupying the same square as an object at the top of the STAIRS, cannot be the target of a ranged attack against it (barring Ultimates / Supes TA, Trick Shot, etc...), AND since they can't be the target of a close combat attack against it (coming from the "adjacent, but at a different elevation" adjacent square, that is) does that mean they basically lock that elevated terrain off from any opposing figure without Leap/Climb, Phasing, or flight? And do LADDERS work the same way, since you have to pass through both squares the LADDER occupies to climb it? I know that's how it used to be, but I was told and have been under the impression that that had changed... And now I am VERY confused, as I can't find any mention of it. Has this been errataed or clarified? If so, could you please point me the way to it? Help!

2) Using the Starro 'Docklands' map here for an example (where, for the most part, it looks like there are STAIRS on the ships and LADDERS on the docks), let's say teammates Jean Grey and Strong Guy are standing on elevated terrain at the top of a LADDER; Strong Guy in the top square of the LADDER, Jean adjacent to him in a direct diagonal of the LADDER (alas, I don't have the exact square numbers on hand...). At the foot of the LADDER, not on elevated terrain, is Absorbing Man. In this scenario, neither Strong Guy nor Absorbing Man can make close combat attacks against each other (and they would NOT have to roll breakaway, right?), but Absorby could target SG with a ranged attack. How about Jean Grey? Because she's not in the top ladder square, she and Absorbing Man wouldn't be 'adjacent, but at different elevations', right? So could she make a ranged attack against Absorby? I don't see why not. Could Absorby make one against her? Or does his 'adjacency, yet strangely unadjacent' with Strong Guy rule that out? I would say it does.
See, I told you I'm confused...

3)Okay, now say that above scenario was taking place on the STAIRS. Could close combat attacks be made there? And they WOULD have to roll breakaway, right?

Ugh. Please help. Please. I would be eternally grateful...
Thanks,
-jason

This doesn't apply to stairs do to the bold text in the rules for stairs and ladders from LoSH found under clear terrain in the terrain section.

Ladders have no such text and therefore follow the standard rule, which prohibits CC attacks between figures at different elevations, as you already seem to know.

Because of the bolded text from my previous quote, CC Attacks can be made between the Stealthy elevated figure at the top of the stairs and a grounded figure in an adjacent square on the stairs.

You are correct that they are not adjacent to Absorbing Man and therefore standard LoF rules apply for making RC Attacks between them. In the example, only SG can not attack AM since his natural range is 0. SStr with an object in hand, Perplex or a similar effect could give him range to make the attack though, if he doesn't have BF, at least.
If that was Stairs AM and SG would be adjacent to one another but JG would nto be adjacent to AM. She could not be attacked by AM since they are not adjacent and he can't make a RC Attack while adjacent to SG. She can make RC Attacks against him again following the standard rules for LoF and such. SG and AM can make CC Attacks against each other without restriction.

Hope that helps you.


BoT

BoT, you rock like Voltron. Thanks EVER so much. Too much rep wouldn't be enough...

So it does seem that a figure at the top square of the stairs / ladder would essentially STILL shut off access to the elevated terrain to opposing figures, right (I mean barring L/C, Phasing, flight, Movethrough feat, etc...)? That ruling hasn't changed?
I wonder what the judge who told me that that HAD changed was thinking (he's a very good judge, which made me even more confused that I couldn't find any mention of this new rule)... Any clue?
Again, thanks a million for the help!
Be well,
-jason

Correct. It can be an irritating strategy at times... when someone beats you to the elevated terrain that is.
Did he say how it supposedly worked now?

Also, one thing that has not been taken into account: remember that figures with Leap/Climb can target figures on different elevations with their close combat actions. This is especially relevant now with movement powers that incorporate Charge (or some version thereof) and Leap/Climb - both FC Beast and Green Scar can attack an opposing figure on a different elevation with their Bouncing Beast/Smash special powers.

I think he was under the impression that you could kind of zip over into an adjacent square when coming down or going up a ladder, so as not to be 'shut out' of going up or down the ladder. It was driving me crazy trying to figure out what he read to make him think that. I'll have to go and tell him what I found...


Brilliant, thank you.

I'll catch you later...
Thanks to you both again,
-jason