Did you mean to say anti ethical? I've yet to see anything in this run that opposes the moral core of The FF. The only other team around as upstanding is The Legion of Super-heroes. I've been a comic collector since 1975.

I felt the point of the story wasn't really how Reed beat Doom, but to show how easy it is to become arrogant and forget the things that are important. What Reed and Doom know or don't know on an intellectual level had nothing to do with this particular victory. Reed realised his power was in the team an their love for one another. That is something Doom can never have. Deux ex Machina? Maybe. But given the view of most other books out there, one that needs repeating. As for leaving Doom in Hell, he was there by his own actions, and it is doubtful that Reed could outpower three demons on their own turf. Doom just wanted to pull him in too. Saving Galactus, a part of the universe's function, is a little different from going to hell for a little Hitler.

no. not anti-ethical (which isn't a word or even a term)

an·ti·thet·i·cal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nt-tht-kl) also an·ti·thet·ic (-k)
adj.
Of, relating to, or marked by antithesis.
Being in diametrical opposition. See Synonyms at opposite.


Meaning; not like the FF at all! I was one of the heralds of this new run. telling everyone about how good it was coming along. and I was excited they wanted to do something with Doom. Unthinkable you say? my mouth was wet. and then what happens? yes..the unthinkable. they take a big 'ol poo on Doom's character. How can you mess with Doom like that? He was already a powerful enough sorcerer, but now by trading in his science smarts he becomes more powerful than Dr Strange? stupid. Mindless ones serving Doom!!!???? Dormammu must be rotating in his aetherial grave! ugh. I hope this title picks up, or I'm gone baby, no extra cash for worthless trash.

yeah, ya know, i was buying into it until issue 500. the whole "magic doesn't work via cause and effect" was ruined when fantastic said, "i suck" (cause) and then a huge blast hit doom (effect).

neat. ok ok ok...what i meant was: LAME.

clump that up with doom being redone (as others have posted, doom was already 2nd in line for sorc supreme of earth), would NEVER submit to another power (REPEAT: NEVER!), and already has beaten fantasic a number of times (including the feat of having his own nation and having fantastic's kid named by him).....

the only redeeming part of this whole arc is the end page of #500. in comics we know that none of the characters ever die. it just doens't happen. we all know that doom will come back. but the writers did find a way of changing fantastic forever, in a way that (may) actually stick around forever.

neat (really).

ugh.

just read #500.

ugh.

all that, for that lame, predictable ending? ughX2.

The way the 'demonic' dialogue is written in this arc, the Haazareth might as well have been the three roller-hockey-kid-imps from Dogma (the Kevin Smith movie, not the secret inner teachings of the catholic church...).

The Character of Doom way played by some imbecilic cretin, who wouldn't know a master plan if it bought his soul off of him! This was not the Victor we all know. and worse; he really isn't!!! he's some new other Doom who sucks!!

uh.. isn't Franklin Richards the most powerful Mutant ever born? or is it his sister Valeria? then why IN HELL are these kids so #### helpless? What? They can only use their powers when its inconveinent?

and what the hell was with the humility gun?? what kind of #### was that? Reed can't get sorcery, so Strange sets him up with a magic gun? D'OH!

all in all: Retarded.

oh..and that scar? big deal..he's mister fantastic!

of couse of couse...I know as well as you; it'll be a magic scar that he can't hide...again..so what? he can simply move the scar to another part of his body and morph a little to cover up. The spell says the scar cannot leave his head you say? well then how about making his head look like his ### and vice versa...who could tell the difference?

once more: retarded.

Well, I'm always happy to learn a new word. My confusion in late evening responses. The whole point of Doom has always been that he could have been a great man, if not for his insane jealousy of Richard's. It is also a little hard even for Richards to contort his face at all times. Being a spell, he may not be able to disguise it.

Ah well. Anyone looking for a Doom who's got his act together should pick up the old Doom 2099 series. A world so evil that Doom is the super-hero.

My two pfennings...

Waid's Fantastic Four has been, well, fantastic. Until issue 500. I agree with all who say it was garbage... an unworthy ending to what was shaping up to be a great story arc.

PS Franklin's powers were "suppressed" or something, I thought I read somewhere that Reed is keeping them in check somehow to protect him.

Y'know, for some reason I really thought I'd hate all the 2099 stuff, and yet it was so tasty, for the most part (except Spider-Man - no more robo-Spideys, please.). Doom2099 was a great echo.

I'm with Hellboy on this one (despite the fact he is a liberal and a mutant sympathizer): Doom is an institution, and Waid graffitoed its Hallowed Halls with some unworthy doggerel.

By the Hoary Hoasts of Hoggoth
and Ymir's Frozen Sea
those are not Mindless Ones!
and they simply never shall be.

Issue 500 didn't really bother me. The scarring was kinda predictable. Having just read a bit of history about Tibetan Buddhism ,the way Reed learns about magic is similar to what a great yogi once had to go through. Dude's name was Naropa.

He was of a mind similar to Reed's. He could win any argument then switch sides of the argument and win from his opponent's standpoint. His mind was so analytical and logical that he kept trying figure out things. His teacher, a guy named Tilopa would always tell him things like "A good student would tackle the queen off her horse as her processional passes by" and Naropa would do it. Naropa went through 12 major and 24 minor tragedies before he "got it". Its a nutshell version of it, but there were slight paralells I found amusing.

While it might not have been the epic everyone's been waitin for, I got a kick out of it. And Weringo's art is always sweet.

Hmm so everyone loves Doom beating F4 behind the first 4/5ths of the story and then when the "god guys" get a chance for a win the only thing that can happen is a contrived low-end idiotic half-arsed ending?Of course this is why the F4 are an eternal joke and 3rd string comic while Doom is considered THE Super-villain in Marvel and a great 3 Dimensional character.If the people at Marvel knew any better F4 500 would have been a fine point to end things and let Doom become a cosmic threat that could appear in virtually any comic and not wasted as a single comics "villain".Instead after a particular cool well written series it ends with "reed finds the self-destruct button on Dooms armor" and makes the whole thing corny.Personally im glad IM not getting that one ill just stick with F4 499 and say thats the end of the serries as reed hangs himself in the Library next issue[not like i ever bought one before anyways^_^ ]

Why has everyone considered Doom the biggest villain in Marvel. If you look bck, he has never really done anything of consequence. He brags a lot in the third person. The last really dangerous thng he did was to steal Silver Surfer's powers back in the early seventies. This is why Doom tries to come up with all these plans to kill The Four instead of just stepping on to the field where he can't compete. Thanos and Magneto are megavillains. Doom is just hot air.

The FF have been the last book in place because most readers want the heroes to kick the #### out of things, and that is not what this book is about. Richards' real power is his brain. This was a story about false pride being weaker than true caring. Dr. Strange supplied Richards with a weapon beause there was not 20 years to train him in spells. Doom only caught Strange by sneak attack. Again, he is too chicken to go toe to toe with Strange. In the past he has always sent out Doombots, because he is chicken. So I reiterate. Doom's rep. is soley due to his bluster, and diplomatic immunity. He's never really done anything. Heck, even Ultron goes toe to toe with The Avengers, but not Doom.

If you were looking for The FF to stick a fork in Doom, that's not there style. That's what The X-Men are for. FF is about family values, and doing the right thing even when it hurts you.

Every page an insult, a disappointment, and a sad joke, spewed expensively onto a chemical-choked dead tree.

Guilt-gun? Pffffffssshh.

I understand the writer got fired and the artist walked.

Proof of a loving creator god?

What the hell? Are you saying that Magneto is a bigger villian let alone a bigger threat than Dr. Doom??????? I wish I could find that issue of Spider-Man where Red Skull beat Magneto. Doom would own Magneto like a pimp with 20 con artist.

the part when Mr Fantastic stretched across the street to put Val in a daycare center in the middle of the battle just cracked me up.
Bah scars what a waste of time next issue doc strange will clear it up or something, I'm waitin for franklins powers to emerge so there will be a new onslaught/Dark phoenix saga.