Yesterday, I played a 500 point game against someone who was running Baxter Stockman and several Mousers. He had two extra Mousers with him who would be considered "outside the game" to use when activating Baxter Stockman's power. After I killed two Mousers he rolled and brought in his two extra Mousers. After I killed a third Mouser he didn't roll to bring another in because he had already used his two "outside the game" Mousers and the ones I had killed earlier would not fall into that category since they started on the map.

We discussed it a bit, and I told him to roll for it anyway because I felt like it was silly to not have the chance to bring extra ones in just because they didn't start the game off of the map and therefor "outside the game."

Did we play it the right way by letting him bring in old KO'd Mousers, or do you really have to have extras that start off of the map and once they are dead you can no longer bring any more in? Thanks for any insight!

A character that is KO'ed is considered to be "outside of the game."

It was right to allow him to continue to roll and bring Mousers back in. In fact, he didn't need any extra, he could have just used the Mousers that were KO'ed.

Relevant WIN Ruling on different figure: http://win.wizkids.com/bb/viewtopic....47ebd24#p15503

Thank you!

I don't think this applies. The wording on the card of your ruling specifically says the same figure comes back. Baxter says it comes from outside the game.

Even without the Ultron-1 ruling, it still works exactly as Wolverazio explained.

And that ruling is relevant, because the figure Ultron's trait brings back has still been KO'd and removed from the game. The figure you bring back, even though it is the same figure, is coming from outside the game, and that's what matters here.

It's worded that way to make sure you can only bring back the exact same kind of Ultron, because that trait applies to 20 different Ultron dials.

Are you sure?

Also:

My understanding is you have to reveal all the possible mousers or brood or whatever you're bringing from outside the game and those KOd are not able to be reintroduced unless the game effect specifically says you can.

Was it right to let them keep reusing the same Mouser? Yeah, for a fun or local venue match I think so. But not according to the official rules.

Are there any other opinions on this?

Yes, this works. It also works this way with recycling Hydra Agents.



When I asked at one point, they ruled that it was possible to recycle the Hydra Agent that you just got KOed for its trait's effect. However, as this is no longer a figure in Modern Age, they have, like usual, purged said rules post.

EDIT TO ADD:

Lupin3rd, recheck your post just above. There's nothing saying that the Sideline and stuff "Removed from Game" (sheesh, I feel like I'm playing Magic again) are the same thing or should even be treated the same way. THIS is a variation between the two effects.

Yes. There was a moment when they thought that KO'ed characters would go to your sideline, but they then realized that would screw over the sideline limit rule. So they went back to KO'ed elements being "removed from the game," which you quoted. An element removed from the game is, by definition, outside the game, isn't it?

Also note, in the Ultron ruling, they later go on to clarify that the Ultron that "brought itself back" is not actually the same character. So the rulings about KO'ed characters being unable to be affected by game effects do not apply here. Because it's not the same character.

The clarification only refers to game elements that begin the game outside the game, it doesn't say that nothing can be added to outside the game. Again, by definition, KO'ed characters go outside the game (where else would they go?).

That clarification was put in place for expediency so that people aren't digging through bags to bring in a character that they didn't have on their starting force.

And just in case anyone doubts me, another WIN ruling that says the same thing: http://win.wizkids.com/bb/viewtopic....2729be1#p18618

You can keep "recycling" Mousers ad nauseam.

Similar question regarding Imperial Hydra:

http://win.wizkids.com/bb/viewtopic....&t=8040#p18618

Thanks for providing the relevant ruling with Imperial Hydra. My confusion stemmed from the fact it says to reveal the game elements and I could not resolve a single Mouser being classified as being multiple for those recycling purposes.

I approve of the ruling, and I appreciate the efforts of those who shared it.

But if you are recycling a KO'd character, you *DID* reveal it... it was on your force. You revealed your force. Unless you were cheating, of course