I know this has changed over the years, but when a power changes its action type (such as using a power action as a free action or a close combat action as an attack), is it considered the original action type or does it change completely to the new action type. The ones that brought this to mind are:

If I can give him BCF, can be use that with Flurry because Flurry is a close action?


If I'm playing Splitlip and the Book against Leech, can a figure use their "power action as a free action" to equip a Hammer?

The Leech answer is no. It was ruled that if a character couldn't take power actions (like TK) they couldn't use it as a free action. The ruling being with Felix Faust's orange power and FF Jean Grey specifically. Not sure about Zoom though. I recall the answer being no but I could be wrong.

I've seen it as both yes and no in my search but nothing on WIN and I know they won't answer it now with how old it is.

IIRC, Zoom specifically can't use blades because Zoom isn't actually being given an action to Flurry. It is an extremely weird corner case. Compare to Dark Angel or Archangel. Both of those characters use Flurry as a different kind of action.

Actions retain their original types, even when used as a different type. Here is a relevant ruling for free action Flurry:
http://win.wizkids.com/bb/viewtopic....a4c063e#p21340

A power used in a different way than normal is still also considered the original type of action. Zoom is an odd case, but not the only example of a power being used as a on-action. I can't remember the context right now, but I'm fairly certain there was a ruling about a similar situation a while ago that said that it would still be considered using the action type of whatever the power was. So, yes, I believe Zoom would be able to use BCF with his Flurry, now.

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Sassamo again.

The way I see it,

Yes, you can use flurry with BCF normally.
Zoom allows you to use Hypersonic with flurry.
Thus you can use BCF with that hypersonic (if you have given him BCF somehow).

It should be noted that this was a reversal of a ruling which had been in place since Zoom had been released.

To be clear, the following is outdated and no longer the way things work.

This was in the old PG under Free Actions:
This made it so that if a power was specified to be given as a free action, then it ceased to be its original type. If a general action type was specified, then it was still that type as well as free.

Examples:
1) "...Shemp can use Close Combat Expert as a free action..." - This was only a free action and not a power action because the specific power was listed.
2) "...Curly may be given a close combat action as a free action..." - This was both a free action and a close combat action because it was the general action type.


I vehemently hated the old rule because it technically meant that Zoom's power actually had no effect. Flurry only had attacks because it was activated with a close combat action. When you took away the close combat action, there was technically actually nothing there which allowed him to make any attack at all. The power only worked because it was obvious what was intended.

Perhaps you are over simplifying on purpose, but just in case you aren't (or for those who don't realize), this isn't at all why it works.

Flurry and BCF can be used together because Flurry is activated by a close combat action and BCF is activated whenever a close combat action is given.

There is nothing inherent to Flurry, specifically, that makes it compatible with BCF. If the power description of Flurry were changed tomorrow to make it activated by a power action, then it would cease to combo with BCF. That's actually exactly why, for a long time, Zoom couldn't use BCF: his Flurry was not activated by a close combat action.



When trying to determine which powers do and don't combo together, the best idea is to just look for the action assignment (or lack thereof). For example, normal PAC-Close Combat Expert is incompatible with BCF because CCE is activated by a power action. But along comes Molly Hayes and:

KNOCK KNOCK: Molly Hayes can use Close Combat Expert, but as a close combat action. When she does and hits, the target is knocked back 4 squares instead of any other knock back.

Now if Molly were to somehow be able to use BCF, she could combo it with her CCE since her CCE is activated by a close combat action.

If we just said "CCE and BCF dont' work together" and didn't look at the actions involved, someone might wrongly conclude that Molly can't use BCF with her CCE.

Just make sure you put the modifiers on attack.