I wish someone would print out nice color copies of all these feats (and character cards I need) and sell them here on the realms. I can laminate them myself. But i would certainly buy nice color copies from someone at a reasonable price just so I dont have to do it myself I don't use them, but now with PnP, I may actually try to start using feats.

That being said, I am definitely for PnP. VgA, I was unaware there was a professional Clix circuit that someone's lower-quality print card would detract from. I would rather the guys who paid $30 bucks for a rare feat use the money for hot water and soap for daily use instead of stinking up the tournament venue, lol.

But seriously, I respect your opinion, I just really have not read a single valid opinion that would justify NOT allowing for print and play. Do you feel that having access to feats to which others do not have access gives you the advantage to win tournaments? If so, then that in itself is the best arguement for print and play I can think of. I think the anti-PnP camp may be made up of the people who got into clix well after the advent of the cardboard element was introduced. I started with IC, and I still hardly ever use feats, unless it is sealed and I need the points(I hate fielding a team that is too much under the point restriction!), but even when I do have a feat on the team, I don't even use it during play, unless my opponent reminds me and asks why I am not using it. Other than sustaining the gap between the "haves" and "have nots", I do not understand why anyone would be against PnP.

And yes, I read the entire 10 page thread and still have not seen a single valid point against PnP.

My dad has wanted a maneuver card to pair with his wally west LE since the card was an LE prize. Now he can have it.

I would agree with you on this point.

if they aren't going to print out feats in the future (PnP is really no indicator of this one way or the other) then I'd rather see feats gets phased out entirely. I've always thought they were redundant with the addition of SP's, and if anything we should maybe just have the little 3-7 pointers to fill in cost gaps. They can also lead to abusive combinations with the SP's, and we don't want another LAMP popping up, really.

But as long as they exist, I'd rather PNP be around. In all of SI, out of probably a case and a half I purchased, I managed to get one Alias. One. There's a little tiny feat I could use more than one of. After that kind of purchase, should I really have to purchase more boosters to look for this common feat? Should I have to trade away one of my valuable plastic men? Or have I earned the right to print out the piece of paper and use it instead?

I say the latter option because, afterall, it IS just a piece of paper in the end.

If you hate print and play, don't use it. I will.

No.

The essentials are

1 map

2 dice

2 teams (with at least 1 figure per team)

and knowledge of the rules of the game. Everything else is fluff.

Well, it actually means that this thread is more controversial.

While thre may be one or two posters here who could amuse themselves by typing ten pages of their own rants (), I think that most people would quit the thread pretty quickly if it wasn't kept alive by contentious points of view.

JackAssterson likes to point out that everything follows the Theory of Cyclical Posting; I would amend this to say that only those things that follow the Theory of Cyclical Posting will survive.

This is under the assumption that you already have a printer and internet. Asking a kid/new player trying to break into the game who doesn't have a $100.00 printer or internet at home, or even the internet and printing savvy to be able to make their own proxys reverts to the same argument that said kid/new player couldn't afford to purchase a $20.00 Warbound if you ask me.

And all the above aside, while I DO have a color printer and internet at home, I personally do not want weak black and white print outs to bring down the quality of my collection. I want the same quality HoT Feats and BFC's that we have come to expect from prior releases. WizKids is forcing me to become a Heroclix handyman and the end result will still be cheap imitation knockoffs that stand out for their inferior quality.

While we all know there are those without the resources themselves to get PnP working for them, it's hard for me to believe (though admittedly not impossible) that these same players know no one willing to help them out. (i.e. other players or, say, Kinko's)

IMHO, this is a growing improbability in the digital age.

This is your choice, and has very little to do with the PnP announcement. All that matter is that you have the option. No one is being forced to do anything.

Wait long enough and someone will come by with really nice "knock-offs" (as you put it). Order or print those out when the time comes.

When you base your defense on the kid who doesn't have internet access, you've pretty much admitted defeat.

If you're so worried about Billy No-Shoes ,a simple solution to this problem is available anyhow. Don't require the proxy at all as long as you have a rules reference at the venue.

Seriously, does anyone need a card to explain to them how protected works at this point? A "protected + 8 points" next to the character's name on a scorecard should be more than sufficient.

To your first point, in a house where money is tight, which is more likely? That the parents will have a $100 printer that can be used for various things or that they will spring for a $20 piece of cardboard useful only in a game for their kid? On top of that, just about everyone has access to a printer somehow. If not at their house, then at their job, their friend's house, their local library, etc.

To the second point, I remember when people would complain about the quality of the WK related feats. Remember in Icons when they were all bent up? Or how about when they switched to thinner cardstock? And does it really matter if someone has their feats in... gasp... black and white!!! Will that really lessen the enjoyment of the game for you or the other player? I've printed off 5+ sets of the new feats/BFCs for HoT on some thick paper. It's not cardboard but it is thicker than normal. I printed them in color and they look pretty good. I plan on handing them out to my regular players at the next tournament. I imagine there will be others out there that do the same. So if someone at my venue doesn't have a printer or wants color versions of the cards, I'll happily print some off for them.

The Have Nots will always exist, regardless of what age we are in, and most likely it will be those same Have Nots that couldn't afford a $20.00 Warbound that can't afford a printer either.

When it comes to the HoT Feats and BFC's, I AM being forced to print them on my own... I really DO NOT have a choice in the matter. NECA has choosen not to produce these cardboard elements and this has everything to do with the P&P policy, there is no option there.

Agreed, but this does not take into account that such folk do not know anyone with access to these resources. THIS is what I meant by "growing improbability". I mean, is no one willing to help these players?

If these Have-Not's exist in such a vaccuum, they're probably not playing Heroclix anyhow.

No, you're not being "forced". This is still your choice.

The "choice" to print the HoT cardboard elements or not may be mine, but the "choice" to be able to play a proxy of them vs the real deal has been eliminated for me by NECA and their P&P policy.

If anybody wants to play a Feat or BFC from HoT then they have to proxy, the option is not there to play an officially produced WizKids version, and this bothers me.

If you can not understand that, then I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this issue.

I fail to understand how anyone can honestly hate this policy. Take the money you would have spent on getting the "real" version of a card, go to Kinkos, print it out in high quality on heavy card stock, and use what's left to get a beer.

There are literally NO convincing downsides to this new system. [And as for the secondary market arguments, stuff devalues. That's life. Do you hate your car the instant you drive it off the lot?]

Fair enough, I can live with that.