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Choosing one or the other will in no way what so ever break this game. People arguing that there are "build in limitations" to existing abilities such as Phoenix SS is just silly. A figure gaining regular SS from a resource is gaining a whole lot more than Phoenix improving on the one she already has. Big Barda being able to use the special Batarangs Incap is a much bigger upgrade than Batman or Batgirl or that random guy with a with a fish net being blocked because they have a standard one. The currently limitation on all of this is just pointless and frustrating.
People arguing that there are "build in limitations" to existing abilities such as Phoenix SS is just silly.
No, that'd be fact.
- THE DARKNESS WITHIN: Dark Phoenix can use Super Senses but only evades the attack on a result of 6. When Dark Phoenix KO's an opposing figure you may heal her of 1 damage.
The normal Super Senses power allows evasion on a 5 or 6. DP's only allows it on a 6. As traits are built-in, that most certainly IS a built-in limitation.
Again, let's stick to actual arguments, and let's get away from value judgments, particularly when they're inaccurate.
Longest-Reigning Drunken HeroClix Champion - anyone got a liver?
Ok, I think the gist of this thread is: "when a character has access to a Standard Power from more than one source, we should be able to pick which Standard Power they get to use."
If that is the intent, how would it be worded to avoid causing more problems than it solves?
More importantly, how would this change make the game better?
From what I've seen, any attempt from GD to streamline game effects and make things easier in the long run is met with 200+ post Thread Rants on how the new rule is bad, or was fine how it was, or the system is corrupt....
Quote : Originally Posted by rpgambit
It's like the glass steagall of heroclix.
It's like an 80 year old banking act?
Last edited by dairoka; 02/07/2013 at 14:53..
Reason: forgot half a sentence...
Quote : Originally Posted by dairoka
I'm pretty sure Dragon has the Future keyword and Probability Control.
Quote : Originally Posted by Dragon
With the amount of times you are Ninja'd I swear you must have the Past Keyword
Not only that, even if it remained a few, its just a bad, unnecessary, and poorly if at all thought out rule.
In your opinion, obviously. And in the opinion of some others. But the fact that we've debated this to this degree says that not everyone feels it is "bad, unnecessary or poorly (if at all) thought out."
It isn't how you think it should be: you have lots of company, and lots of valid arguments in favor of something different being as effective/no more harmful. "It's bad" isn't one of them.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.”
I wonder if anyone ever wrote a letter to chess manufacturers asking why a king can move only one square, while the queen is only limited to the board size?
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
Dude - you print that sucker out on some GOOD paper stock (none of that cheap Staples (R) stuff), shred it and put it in your Magic Bullet with a little bit of Orange Juice (or, if you are feeling saucy, some Lime and Lemon) and run it for about 30 seconds and you have got some GOOD clixin' drinks.
Just don't over do it. Bad things can happen.
Quote : Originally Posted by MisterId
I wonder if anyone ever wrote a letter to chess manufacturers asking why a king can move only one square, while the queen is only limited to the board size?
Are you going through my mail? o_O
The Bismarck was scuttled by it's crew - I think it was the first known recorded rage quit... -Tyroclix
I wonder if anyone ever wrote a letter to chess manufacturers asking why a king can move only one square, while the queen is only limited to the board size?
We're not questioning why some figures have a move of 12 while others 5.
Ok, I think the gist of this thread is: "when a character has access to a Standard Power from more than one source, we should be able to pick which Standard Power they get to use."
If that is the intent, how would it be worded to avoid causing more problems than it solves?
More importantly, how would this change make the game better?
From what I've seen, any attempt from GD to streamline game effects and make things easier in the long run is met with 200+ post Thread Rants on how the new rule is bad, or was fine how it was, or the system is corrupt....
If it's going to be changed it certainly needs to be clear.*
Something like
"If a power or ability is available from more than one source the active player may choose which source to utilize. No aspect of the other source(s) can be used."
I'd personally add some "oops" to that: "the choice is made at the beginning of the controller's turn and lasts until the beginning of his next turn. If the chosen source is lost no source is active until the next opportunity to choose." But that's because I'm not a very nice person.
*If it isn't changed it still needs some documented clarification.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.”
I wonder if anyone ever wrote a letter to chess manufacturers asking why a king can move only one square, while the queen is only limited to the board size?
You've totally missed the point. Your example of chess could actually be good, if you did it right. A queen is worth 9 points. She can move in any of 8 directions, as far as she can go. So, 9 points=8 directions. Now, suppose a rule existed that certain queens are worth 9 points, but can only move in 7 directions if they're played on boards made of mahogany or teak. Hey, that's the rule...but wouldn't you question it?
Nobody is questioning if this rule is in fact a rule:
Quote
Game effects which grant the use or possession of another game effect have no effect if the recipient can already use the new effect.
Just the same as nobody is questioning why a king moves only one square. Every king in chess behaves in exactly the same way, and there are no circumstances that can deny certain kings that kings inherently do.
Quote : Originally Posted by BlackIrishGuilt
I'd like to thank Origamiman for teaching me the ways of scarcastic abuse.
Quote : Originally Posted by JRTasoli
Oh my.......Holy..........mother.....I can't. I can't. This is just glorious. This is the Mona Lisa of sarcastic replies. Origamiman, you make it look like art.
Quote : Originally Posted by Danzig01
origamiman: From top to bottom, the best snarkster in the business
We're not questioning why some figures have a move of 12 while others 5.
No, but I have to say (for me at least) that speaks to the (IMO) foolishness of the argument that the current rule is unfair because not every figure benefits from every effect in the same way.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.”
No, but I have to say (for me at least) that speaks to the (IMO) foolishness of the argument that the current rule is unfair because not every figure benefits from every effect in the same way.
No. This would be like giving a resource to a pawn that turns it into a queen except that the pawn can't move forward more than 1 square because it duplicates that same "move forward" effect granted by the resource and is locked out of being able to use the expended range.
No, but I have to say (for me at least) that speaks to the (IMO) foolishness of the argument that the current rule is unfair because not every figure benefits from every effect in the same way.
That's actually the very definition of unfair. The outside effect is (should be) a constant since you're paying the same for it every time. Of course I mean that you're paying the same amount for the exact same stuff (three batarangs, one suit of sorrows, the scorpio key, etc).
Quote : Originally Posted by BlackIrishGuilt
I'd like to thank Origamiman for teaching me the ways of scarcastic abuse.
Quote : Originally Posted by JRTasoli
Oh my.......Holy..........mother.....I can't. I can't. This is just glorious. This is the Mona Lisa of sarcastic replies. Origamiman, you make it look like art.
Quote : Originally Posted by Danzig01
origamiman: From top to bottom, the best snarkster in the business
Just the same as nobody is questioning why a king moves only one square. Every king in chess behaves in exactly the same way, and there are no circumstances that can deny certain kings that kings inherently do.
The problem with your example is that every Queen is the same, just as every bm025 Batgirl is the same, and every bm025 Batgirl will experience the effects of a specific item the same way. Now if teak boards effected all queens but only queens...
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.”
No, but I have to say (for me at least) that speaks to the (IMO) foolishness of the argument that the current rule is unfair because not every figure benefits from every effect in the same way.
The bolded statement is the reason I am against any game element that allows you to add more effects to a character. You can't adequately price such a thing so that it is balanced for all characters.
You've totally missed the point. Your example of chess could actually be good, if you did it right. A queen is worth 9 points. She can move in any of 8 directions, as far as she can go. So, 9 points=8 directions. Now, suppose a rule existed that certain queens are worth 9 points, but can only move in 7 directions if they're played on boards made of mahogany or teak. Hey, that's the rule...but wouldn't you question it?
But you're not talking about the same Queen anymore. As soon as you add the 'resource' to the Queen, it's not the same as what it was. You're adding an element, which means you are now dealing with an entirely new Queen.
You have the regular Queen at 9 points.
Queen with Gauntlet: 49 Points.
Two different pieces, two different prices, two different sets of rules as far as that go, because the Gauntlet adds effect.
The nice thing about this ruling? It doesn't matter if I put the Gauntlet on the Queen or on the Rook - it still follows the same limitation. The Rook might have a power that's affect and the Queen might not, but they are both held to the same set of requirements. If the Queen has Prob and the Gauntlet has Prob, she can only use her Prob. If the rook doesn't have Prob, he can use the Gauntlet's Prob. If the Knight has Prob he can't use it from the Gauntlet either. They are all held to the same standard - some just bear it better than others.
Quote : Originally Posted by origamiman
Just the same as nobody is questioning why a king moves only one square. Every king in chess behaves in exactly the same way, and there are no circumstances that can deny certain kings that kings inherently do.
These rulings aren't stopping you from doing things that figures inherently do, they are denying you the ability to do them from other sources. The inherent power is still there (barring outwit, etc). It is restricting the Gauntlet, but the restrictions of the Gauntlet are universal and held to the same standard on every single figure. That those standards weigh more heavily on some figures than others is a normal part of the game.
The Bismarck was scuttled by it's crew - I think it was the first known recorded rage quit... -Tyroclix