This statement reminds me of the old days when Yata-Garasu was around and people would complain that they were getting beat "because of yata." In reality they were getting beat because they hand no playable cards in their hand or on the field. They were getting beat because they had been generally outplayed and had lost card advantage. During those days everyone wanted to focus on the turn that Yata hit the field and failed to realize that all the turns that came before were the really important event.

Now there are always going to be the odd moments were you lose duels to bad draws or other unfortunate events. This is a card game and a certain degree of luck will factor into the equation from time to time. However, if you are always losing when BLS hits the field, then I must say that your deck is either poorly designed or you are playing your cards wrong. When I beat people with BLS, it is because I have carefully worked to drain away their cards; depleting their hand, and limiting their options. I am able to finsih them of with BLS because I have out played them up to that point. Likewise I do not get finished by BLS because I will have more optoins and card advantage when he hits the field.

Now to clarify a point, I do not have a problem with the ban list. It does change up the meta from time to time and that is not a bad thing. However, the ban list does not change the balance of power in Yugioh. If you believe it promotes originality then you are dead wrong. I have a problem with people believing that banning X card will result in the rebirth of original deck types winning large tourneys.

My point is that no matter what cards are on the ban list, the cream will rise to the top.. Superior skill wins tournaments now and when BLS gets banned (I believe it will) skill will still win tournaments. If you are losing now, then you will continue to lose when BLS is banned.

I do not care if BLS is banned or not, I have won with every incarnation of the ban list and I will continue to win with any new version of the ban list. The ban list only change the means and not the ends. What I have a problem with is people believing that they are losing BECAUSE of BLS. That is what I am arguing against. You are losing because your opponent is better than you.

LOL you and lily must be brothers... or wait part of the BLS cult because you both use the same argument...

"You dont lose to luster your opponent is just better than you" "You suck at yugioh thats why you lose"

when infact we are good but its people with luster who win only by topdecking him....

my girlfriend will argue with you to.... she has the game locked with Horus Lvl. 8 which is harder to get out but the lucky newb topsdecks luster and removes horus, and from there on its remove or... double attack... any m/t set are either mst'd... heavy stormed.... or breaked.... and if luster does somehow die... its a premature the next turn and look whos back.... and than its call... and than its warrior returning alive... but they dont even need to bring him back that many times... they just need him out like once or twice and its game..... pretty broken Id say.....

I would really like to duel you and beat you and than laugh in your face cuz you are a arrogant person and I bet you that if Luster is banned youll try to win and youll be like.... NO I CANT TOPDECK LUSTER!! WAHHHH!

mtruitt-There are situations like when an opponent topdecks BLS-EOTB etc. that should even call into question your belief in the "you only lose cause you suck philosophy"

Lets get one thing straght the ban list is NOT about getting origional decks to win nationals etc. it's about weakening the luck of the draw and giving origional decks a FIGHTING chance. I don't know if the current list does that but the previous ban list sure did, I competed with Burn, XYZ, Gravekeepers, Water, Elma OTK, and Dragons and say people playing Amazons and Agents and NOT getting nuked on turn three by Chaos Emperor Dragon! They may not have won regionals but those decks actually gave the chaos/control players a challenge instead of just getting run over in 3-4 turns!

1. "Untouchable" isn't my word, it's yours. I stated that BLS-Envoy doesn't affect enough factors of the game at once to warrant bans. I cited other examples of banned cards that affect multiple aspects of the game at once and in disruptive manners to support that. Of course, with the on-and-off way that Konami bans some things, it's tough to see what Konami precisely considers "ban-worthy" sometimes. >_> Oh, and Injection Fairy was unbanned.
2. Black Luster Soldier - Envoy is not in every deck. Only 4 of the top-8's at SJC So Cal used BLS - the others were beatdown, Phoenix/Vampire control and Tsukuyomi lock. So, other decks are indeed making it up top without the Envoy (although I'm still scratching my head at Vargas' deck...). And, if you look in the deck depot, not every deck is using BLS-Envoy. Please don't make generic, sweeping claims. =\
3. I never said BLS-Envoy was inferior, I stated that he has equals. A big fat monster brought on the field via 2-3 cards is not a new concept.

Sakuretsu Armor, Ring, Mirror Force, Bottomless Trap Hole, wow here comes the list again...
I'm sorry, but I'm gonna dip into semantics, just because I like you :D - there are many players who are unconcerned about life points (didn't Scientist teach us that a bit =\). Besides that, as long as you have life points left, you still have a chance to come back. And sick advantage? I reckon I can use Vargas' Thestalos/Soul Exchange combo and get the same advantage ratio.

Pardon the double-post -- By advantage ratio, I'm referring to the remove-from-play effect. Even then, -1 card advantage is nothing new either.

I know its not in literally every deck, it's called hyperbole! LOOK IT UP! :cheeky:

lily dude-Who summons BLS-EOTB when their opponent has set cards? Its very bad strategy! Shouldn't we be discussing the cards merits as though it was being used competently?

IT WAS BANNED that was the point!

Life Points do matter thats why people run enraged battle oxs etc. and I can't even begin to count how many times I've had an opponent topdeck a premature burial, seven tools, dimension fusion and unable to activate it mutter curses under their breath!

NO FLAMING!!! SHAME ON YOU ALL!!!

"It is not braggin' if it is true" - Cassius Clay

If people can only beat you by topdecking BLS then your regionals record should always be about 7-2, 6-2, 6-1, etc. or even better actually. since the duels are best of 3 and a BLS topdeck will only win 1 or those 3 duels.

As for your the example of your girlfriend....well that is one amazing set of circumstance.....to have heavy, mst, call, premature, warrior returning alive, all in a row like that. Did the guy also pot, graceful, and d.duo on the opening hand....your counter arguement is a 1 in a 1000 set of circumstances.

My "if you lose you suck" theory, is actually not a theory, but a semantical fact. Someone who sucks if by definition of the term "suck" some one who loses. If you win you cannot by definition suck. Your losing is direct evidence of the fact that you suck....this is the definition of the term. So I do not see how this can be a contraversial point.

As for you calling me out to duel me...no problem Nationals is only a couple of months away we can just duel there....since you only lose when newbs topdeck BLS I am sure that you have your invite by now. I will be more than happy to let you demonstrate your superior skill and defeat me in a duel.

And let me end by repeating something which I have said numerous times.. I DO NOT CARE IF THEY BAN BLS. It does not make a difference to me really, I am just tired of people blaming all their loses on that card. Just man up and admit that you got beat by someone who outdueled you for that match. Stop trying to diminish their victories....that is just weak.

Well, like I mentioned, the whole "life points" thing is kind of subjective, because, in the manner in which my words came out:
I didn't say it as an absolute statement. If you don't have enough life points, then it matters to just about everyone, I'll give you that. but in the early-to-mid game? Outside of an Agent deck, to many players LP is not quite as important.

I'm not a fan of hyberbole, btw. =\ Have a good evening.

Now cheap shots are just childish now. I can say you do not give up easily on things niether as I. Your insisting that your right about this and won't give it up.
I am the exact same way. What your only a sophmore in highschool. Try this exercise okay to help you see why it is the most broken. Put youself in the mindset of a person that disagrees with you. I will start my numerical arguement now.
1 Negligble cost
2 Muti Attacker
3 Lead to turn 2 win relates to 2
4 remove from play abilty that works on any monster on the field
5 Is 3000/2500
6 Jinzo/Spell Cancler complemant it
7 Easy summoning requirement
8 Intimadates other duelist
Here is a situation where BLS by name is broken. Although harder to pull of have three primal seeds in the deck banisher on the field it can lead to infinite life, monster desrtuction completelty, complete s/t destruction, infinite attack. It is the next butterfly dagger elma situation but more powerful. Have BLS on the field and banisher also. Have to primal seeds in your hand and two spell cards. Since banisher is on the field any card goes to the graveyard. Activate your two spell cards then play primal seed to get back your two spell cards then activate them again so they get removed from play. Activate your other primal seed to get another primal seed back into your hand then and a spell card continously repeat that and you can do alomst anything. That is where elma falls short because it uses only itself and where this is strong is that a person can reuse a magic card infinitley.
Read through my arguements and post yours okay, but there is a condition to this. The arguement has to be a specific weakness of the card itself and not as a card in general. Do not post that an arguement is invalid at all. That is where all you other people come into play. Please post what arguements are invalid so I can mark them.

agent again, bashing the BLS, yawn so what's new?? ya know its been said A ZILLION times already and meh, so what if its true?
DOES EVERYTHING IN THE GAME HAVE TO BE WATERED DOWN??

if anything thats whats going wrong with the game now, don't ban BLS, make something better, that doesn't support BLS, and then do it again, and again and again and again, so that BLS ends up just another option when you build the deck, ya know, take down its broken-ness, give it some rivals.
a card as simple as this would rival BLS-
Earth Crush
Trap
Tribute 1 Earth monster of 1000 ATK or less, destroy all monsters of 1500 ATK or higher in your opponents hand, for the next 2 draw phases and see.....
yeah that's right! an Earth Crush Card! thats my example!

this goes for any card, want another example, rageki, you say?
Screw Rageki (who cares about the card name)
Fire/Pyro(attribute/type don't really here matter either, so don't flame)
1800/meh (the point is to give it DECENT USABLE stats, i find this is def a mistake konami makes over and over when they try to make counter)
When this card is detroyed by a (opponents? don't want it broken?) spell it is immediatly special summoned back to the field.

so what i'm saying is BLS is broken, but of course it is, in such a small card pool, and esp. with everything getting watered down on top of it. discard a card, pay 800 lp, what is this crap? soon enuff we'll all be running night assailants b/c we have to, and everyone will claiming they're beyond broken.

another thing that pisses ppl off about BLS, that has nothing to do with broken or not, is the deck depot.
STOP POSTING YOUR COOKIE CUTTERS IN THE DEPOT PPL!!!
we've all seen the deck before, jus b/c your deck is 3 cards different the concept is the same and chances are the only posts you'll get are to change those 3 cards!

Dingo brought up some really good points. In the lifespan of Card games Yugioh just hit puberty. As of right now, Yes BLS is very powerful but manly because he has no rivals and there are no reasonable counter parts or alternatives to the Soldier as of yet. Perhaps a Earth, Wind chaos monsters or a monster that benefits from being removed out of play aside from the unreasonably difficult Scout plane. Like Dingo said, Yugiohs card pool, compared to lets say Magic is, still pretty small. Not to mention the first 2 1/2 sets gave us a vast amount of worthless normal monsters.

You're kidding right? We DO NOT NEED more freakishly broken cards we need more "balanced" ones which is something magic can do because of the mana cost of cards.

Example-
GREAT EFFECT=LOW ATTACK
GREAT EFFECT=HIGHER COST

Lightning Vortex is a balanced out version of Raigeki
Brain Control is a balanced version of Change of Heart

The idea that this game needs more broken cards is outerly perplexing

Some Guy-HELP, I'M ON FIRE!!!
Dingo-WHAT YOU NEED IS SOME GASOLINE POURED ON YOU

c'mon guys, this is my first ever reply, and i can't stand seein' any cards gettin' bashed like this, sure bls is powerful, but isn't that the point of the game, i'm a bottomess traphole or dark core can get rid of it long enough to win, i just wish more people would stop whinning about cards and try new ways of stopping the card.

and then you get those insanely broken cards like broodstar...

8,2blue
Creature-Beast
affinity for artifacts
Flying
Power and toughness equal to the number of artifacts in play
*/*


im sorry, but this card is horrible. drop a 8/8 for 2, which is done easily. play a rush of knowledge, draw 10 cards. magic has horribly broken cards also. And unlike BLS-EotB, Broodstar isn't limited.