I just remembered that the GDSA is not 14 but 17. So to make that army legal under 450/3, it should be special forces, which is more WWII like anyway. So now what do you think?

@MechGumbi: Very nice. Will your opponents also be playing WWII themed armies? If not, you might have a bit of trouble, but then, this is for a fun game, right? ;) I'd possibly suggest keeping the Bikes near the back of the MHI's to help with their 180 degree arc. Other than that, take lots of hindering and have at it.

Now the real question, which side of WWII are these forces fighting for? :)

Well since LI is Chinese by decent I would say China, but I would prefer to say US with the standard green uniforms... :) .

CORRECTION: I did charge Andrzej, didn't pay attention to Mjolnirs Agility SE, so I got the worse of that in that turn.
Turn 4:
He moved the last Sylph out of the DZ, Declan did another close combat on an ATV and killed it. Moved a Sylph toward Andrzej. I resolved arty and hit the Hoverbike, hit Declan and missed on the last pog. Did ballistic ranged atk on the remaining active Mjolnir and hit - had read arc. That was a push, no heat affects and then cooled. Last order was an arty order, 1 on salvaged Mjolnir that's retreating, another on the Sylph in W6 and the last again on Declan.
Turn 5:
Declan did another close combat and destroyed my last ATV, did a move and shoot with a Sylph on Andrzej and got a critical MISS!! Moved away from pog. Moved Sylph closest to Declan into my DZ, to the right of the ST/PDS/GDSA formation. I resolved arty, and missed everything. Moved TB formation to base Declan, but only 1 could had the range. GDSA jumped behind Sylph.
Turn 6:
Declan vented. Sylph attempted another rear arc shot and missed. Moved salvaged Mjolnir into his DZ. 10 minutes remaining. Andrzej moved toward salvaged Mjolnir, pogged remaining Mjolnir, pushed Sylph and Hoverbike. Moved ST to attempt shot at Sylph in my DZ next turn.
Turn 7:
Declan close combat on TB, and destroyed it, I used Fanaticism on one TB. Moved remaining active Mjolnir toward Andrzej, attempted move and shoot with Sylph and hit Andrzej. I resolved arty and hit Hoverbike and destroyed it, missed with the rest. Moved another TB to base Declan. Andrzej pushed to destroy salvaged Mjolnir and did, shut down in process - :(
Turn 8:
Declan close combat on TB, destroyed it, did 2 move and shoot with Sylphs and missed both. I pushed arty and placed on Declan, Mjolnir and a pushed Sylph, moved last TB to base Declan and ST took a shot at Sylph in my DZ. Cooled Andrzej and failed start up roll. :(
Turn 9: Last round
Declan pushed to close combat TB, destroying it. Moved last Mjolnir toward Andrzej, and moved Sylph in my DZ toward his DZ(?). I resolved arty and luck would have it that my pog drifts to hit remaining Mjolnir and destroys it!! I hit the rest too, destroying a Sylph and hitting Declan.
GAME 2VC(VC1 &2) to 1(VC3).

Ixnaydude

Hey all, just wonder what everyone's thoughts on the viability of the ROTS-Liao situational alliance card would be. What units, if any, does the Republic have that would be a good complement to our stuff, post retirement that is? I can't think of any really. They had no units in Counterassault, the main units that they have that would be an advantage to us would be the Balac, however that is being retired.

Some units that may prove valuable:

Gray Death Scout Armor - 2 damage, 2 target AnP. 7 Attack and decent defense. Adds a good AnP infantry to our group as this is something we're lacking. However I'm curious whether using the Merc Gray Death Battle Armor and a merc contract might be a better option

Kelswa Assault Tank - The Kelswa Tanks are pretty beastly. With a 24 defense, 5 damage AP and 14" range this is one of the few units the Republic offers that fills a role we cannot with our current unit selection. While the Fulcrum, MHI AA and GFST are nice, they aren't the MBT that the Kelswa is. It's neigh untouchable 24 defense combined with a 14" range AP attack could serve the Chancellor well.

Nacon Armored Scout - The Nacon isn't a bad little unit, not a great little unit either. It adds the Homing Beacon Special Eq but not much more than that. Could potentially be useful in supporting some of our larger mechs with Energy weapons. Most likely not worth paying the price for the SA card if this is all you're using.

And that's about it. All of the Knights/Paladins of the Sphere will be retiring with the exception of Crow and well...
Anyone else think of any viable options?

@vapor311: I agree. It would be nice to use a Kelswa tank drop. Maybe the ROTS repairmech might be something to consider as well. Just to have the luxury of healing for our uber mechs for more than one click and not having to be too dependent on setting up the right situation for healing. The ROTS Salvage mech has rapid strike to double heal if needed. Still there is always Jon Roberson, the Merc Salvagemech. That's about it.

ROT doesn't have anything that we can't get already from Mercs. Mercs have a Kelswa and repairmech. Merc Gray Death BA also has 2 damage AnP as well. The Grand Alliance with BR will be HUGE though. BR Combat Engineers and BR Sprints and maybe even the Fa Shih (since it's faster than the LI version), and the BR ATV will all be excellent additions.

Tourney Report

Chose to go Faction Pure 450

Targe x 2
ATVs x 3
Long Tom
Combat Engineers x2

Opponent #1
SC Mjonir
Merc Zahn
DF DI Schmitt
DF Marksman
Highlander Hoverbikes x4
SS Hoverbike x1
SC Fulcrum Hevay Hovertank
Byalin's Killer Clown Combat Engineers

Decided to play defensive reactionary and let his forces come to me as I let my Long Tom soften him up a little and have him push out or devide his forces.

Managed to damage his Zahn with the DI Schmitt, his SC Fulcrum, Mjonir, and his Marksman during his advance. His Mjonir parks in the corner out of my DZ, but in range of my Long Tom. I park a Targe in range of his Mjonir (I knew his 12 inch laser weapon only did 2 damage, not enough for penetrating the Targe). He vents. I then shoot a 3 damage AP round into the Mjonir. He charges my Targe and the Targe finishes him off.

The Merc Zahn that got dinged came into my other Targes 20 inch charge range and I charged it for 6 (ruthlessness) killing the tank inside as well.

His Marksman kept getting pinned on it's side by my ATV and one of my ATV's just racked up VC 3. Game over. Won all 3 VCs. Got awe once to his 3 commands.

Opponent #2
DF DI Schmitt x 2
DF Garrott x 2
DF Donars x 2
DF Peasant Companies x 2
DF ATVs x 3
Baylin's Killer Clowns Combat Engineers

I set up for defensive reaction turtle. I stupidly infiltrate my ATV downfield when I lost initiative. So the beginning of the game I spent it trying to save my rear based ATVs and chasing his ATV's down. I manage to ding or push one Donar and both Garrots. I kill one ATV that unwisely based my Targe. His advance covers everyone and is well thought out. I get a critical miss on my Long Tom at a critical point of the game when he is in striking distance. He deploys his DI Schmitt and critical hits my Long Tom (just enough to kill it since I had pushed earlier). He covers the DI Schmitt from potential side basers. I charge with 1 Targe and hit. I base his landed, pushed Garrott with the other Targe. I let my Targes rest for a while. One of my ATVs kills one of his Atvs.

I sense that time is almost up and start hurrying. I know if I can kill the Schmitt I will be in the lead. I choose to push one of my Targes to kill the based Garrot, but it only becomes salvaged (those things were not as fragile as I thought. My other Targe has to rest.

He manuevers his Donars around the melee and deploys his other DI Schmitt. I break with one of my ATVs to base his other Schmitt on the side. I choose to push my Targe again to kill the Garrot. So I did and it cost me. Major shutdown. Now my other Targe had a clear shot at the DI Scmitt that broke away. I critical miss on the shot! His Donars take 2 turns to totally annihilate my shutdown Targe. I choose to charge my other Targe to finally kill his Schmitt and then shutdown. He blasts away at my other Targe and the game ends.

I lose all three VCs. Only got awe once to his 2 commands. I shouldn't have panicked about the time. There was a lot of time left to properly cool both of my Targes. Critical misses in critical times happen. He properly supported his strikeforce with deadly force and made me pay when the oppurtunity came.

Still it was a very fun strategic game and I got the fellowship award. The champ gave me Tammi Miller because he knew that I wanted one for my brother, so we traded. So it was a very spirited day!

6 player Tourney Report from 3 weeks ago (best I can remember):

Chose to go Liao Faction Pure:

Czupek
Shun x 2
Fa-Shih x2
Gray Death Scout Armor x2
ATVs x 3

449 points with Awe

Packed a GDSA and Fa-Shih in each Shun. Strategy was to 1) hope that there would be no all VTOL armies and 2) charge into his DZ and do all the battling there.

Opponent #1

JF Ocelot
JF Flamer Teams x 5
JF Kelswa
JF Gun Emplacement x 3
JF Elemental BAs x 3
and a supporting vehicle with long range pulse

I placed a blocking in front of his forces and moved my VTOLS to his right side. All I did was base and grapple his stuff (most importantly the Kelswa and occupying the Ocelot) and important infantry and tried to score points with Czupek, so it turned into a big melee dance on the right side of his DZ. I started with infantry munching and used Cupek to base single Elementals. One Elemental gets super lucky with his 8 attack and hits me for 3 because I am elite! I need to vent Czupek after a lot of actions so I am still in contact with that lucky Elemental. He breaks free with his Kelswa. I try to break and I fail, the Elemental breaks from me and he blasts Czupek with the Kelswa for 6. I manage to base his Kelswa, and Czupek starts to run for his life. The ocelot breaks free and bases Czupek and Czupek is now surrounded by infantry and vehicles. Czupek has no jump jets anymore, so I try to break push run. I succeed and Czupek shuts down behind the enclosing circle. They move in for the kill and time runs out. I win by the clock and win all 3 VCs. Had like 2 awes.

Opponent #2
Can't remember, but he was a good opponent. Had like 2 awe. I won all 3 VCs and Czupek was a-okay.

Opponent #3
Can't remember. This was easier. Had like 2 awe. Won all 3 VCs and Czupek was a-okay.

I was lucky that my gamble / sideboard paid off about the VTOLs. Went 3 and 0 and gave the prize away since my brother already had it. Sorry for the memory loss.

Just wanted to share the following:

After 4 weeks of choosing to try Liao faction pure in tournaments, I have found great satisfaction these days in playing Mechwarrior. I enjoy the challenge and joy that is now found in playing these games. Each victory seems even more special because I've had to work harder to achieve it. My strategy sense has grown tons more just by sticking with a select pick of Liao units.

I started out tryng to make the IDEAL multi-role Liao army that will match up against any archetype army out there, but discovered quickly that winning would be too few and far between. It wasn't possible to beat all archetypes. After the past four weeks, I have learned that winning with Liao faction pure is very hard. There are too many contingencies to plan for (ie. Highlander Sniper Teams, SW J-37s, etc.)

Playing Liao faction pure now, I just predict what players will show up at each venue and predict what types of armies they would bring. This will help me to hopefully select the best Liao army configuration to maximize my chances of winning at a tourney. Like bringing the right tools for the job. It's the only way to have a chance to take a tourney.

Disclaimer: I'm not writing this to brag, feel good about myself, or make friends on this forum. Just wanted to validate those of you have chosen to play Liao faction pure out of good spirit and flavor. It is fun!

Just wanted to say thank you to all of the people who helped me from this forum.

OK I am falling for Liao and thinking of moving to Liao from SC faction. I am reading here on the forums different stratagies and learning that Liao is a great faction for faction pure play. So I am posting 2 Liao faction pure armies for review LMK ups and down.

Army #1
Jacyn Bell 271
Garrot Superheavy 30
--X2 Salamander BA 50
--X1 Fa Shih BA 26
X6 Scout ATV or MGC 72 (mix anyway you like)
450

Jacyn sets up for DFA using the FaShin to hold target in place and maybe shutting it down or softening it up with the 2 Salamanders. While the MGC and ATVs support/repair Jacyn and eachother as they die. I know I know you already know theses tactics.

Army #2
Catalina Trujillo 246
PDS 82
X2 Infiltrator MkI 30
X2 Sniper Team 44
X4 Scout ATV 48

Straight foward= PDS lays down the beat while Inflitrators MkI and snipers protect the PDS. Scout ATV and Catalina move in to kill the obvious targets starting with arty and infantry.


Well LMK I will be testing these armies soon but would like you opinion on how they look and should do in tournies.
Thanks

@Upgrade

I like your Catalina army better than the other. The choice Yu Huang is Andrzej - if you got him(If you don't, highly suggest you try to get your hands on him). He's cheaper and an elite. BTW, welcome to Liao.
Specifically on your Catalina army. I'd suggest taking out 1 Sniper Team for 2 Combat Engineers. Their short dials can help with Fanaticism for your PDS and have a mean bite for their short range. This can free up the remaining Sniper Team and give you some options.

Ixnaydude

@Upgrade
The second army featuring Catalina shows alot of promise. Solid mech, good artillery, good infantry + infiltration. I think you'd do pretty well with that army.

The problem with Bell is that while the DFA is very scary, the targets you can justify attacking with it are few. Considering that at his peak Bell has an effective 8 attack for a DFA you're limited to targets with a defense of 19 or less and then you're looking at a ~50% chance of success.
Regarding the infantry drop, I usually find when I attempt to deploy something like that, 2 Salamanders supported by a Fa Shih, it typically draws more attention from my opponent than whichever mech I'm fielding. As such having it sneak up on an oppenent so that you can drop on them can be difficult. The Garrot drop has an effective range of 14" (including bases and dropping from the air). While it doesn't allow for dropping a ranged formation, using a Shun adds more mobility to your force, extending your drop range by ~3". Since the utility of the Fa Shih and Salamanders is their close combat abilities, adding mobility which gets them to their targets faster is what I find is more effective with them.
Granted I don't know what your Liao collection looks like, but substituting Gray Death Scout Armor for Salamanders is a good cost effective way to diversify your force. Bypass in general I'm of the opinion that it's pretty gimmicky. Better to save some points on the Salamanders and use those points to upgrade some ATVs or MGCs to Trackbikes.

@vapor311: Well, without getting any physical units in the set, at least Liao is mentioned with a SA card (although with the Republic :rolleyes: ). While as other's have mentioned, we can get access to similar units through using Mercs, what we don't know is the ability the SA grants. So in the end it will be a question of: do you use mercs with the contract and have all of your units be able to make formations and use our Faction abilities, or trade off total force cohesion for some as of yet untold ability. From looking at the ability granted from the DF/SC SA, it might be worth it.

As for actual units, I agree with you on the GDSA and the Kelswa. Although I would be reluctant to take the Kelswa because that would push to make the force less Liao, and I think it would require a larger Republic force to help support it (at least a pair of infantry to protect the blind spots if not dropped). I'm not too sure on the usefulness of the Nacon. With all our streak, I don't see that much use coming from the Homing Beacon. And personally I'd rather spend the 40 some odd points on a Fulcrum. Longer life, more mobility, and better damage. And it's Liao. :)

I'd take a look at the Republic Regulator II. Longer range than ours (but with a minimum), and reactive armor. It plays well with both our Tom and PDS, and is a reasonably costed tank. I also like the Republic Elementals. Nothing too fancy, but an infantry with four clicks of heavy armor up front, with 2 damage and 7 attack is nothing to overlook. Non-AP arty becomes less of a threat, and DF ATV's become a mere nuisance.

@ixnaydude and yogo_rendo: Thanks for the battle reports. They are always entertaining and useful learning tools. After I leave a tournament, I spend a good deal of time going over the battles and evaluating my performance. Reading about others experiences and tactics help me with my game, so I just want to thank you.

In response to your battle vs the DF army of doom (yogo_rendo), it sounds like that without the dice turning sour on you, you would have probably come off the better. Sure, it wasn't a mongrel army, but a pure DF army with double Schmitt drop and double Donars is nothing to sneeze at. You did very well.

I'm glad you are enjoying your time with the Chancellor's forces. As has been stated before, House Liao is one of the better factions, and can hold it's own in a competitive environment even going faction pure.

There is no 'perfect' army. If there were, this game wouldn't be much fun. Even at the very top, there are a few army types. Variety is what keeps this game from becoming chess (not that there is anything wrong with chess, but typically it isn't as big of a money sink). You will never come across an army that can deal with everything. And if there is, then the game designers have failed. Wizkids hasn't had the best track record, but I don't think they are doing such a bad job. I'm excited by the new rules coming out with AoD, even if Liao isn't making an 'official' showing. I think what will be considered 'competitive' will become more varied, and the overall strategic potential of the game will increase.

My goal in playing MW is to become the best player I can be. This has many levels too it. At the top is my tactical ability. I want to go into any game with a chance at winning, as long as I don't make any glaring mistakes and the dice don't want me to lose. Army building comes into this, but I feel it is more understanding what your army can and cannot do, as opposed to finding the 'best' army. I should be able to look at my opponents forces, and figure out the best method of defeating them with what I brought. I might have to change some of my strategy in the process, but that's ok. No plan ever survives contact with the enemy. There are some forces that will be outclassed by others, but in the end, it should never be easy.

I also like the challenge of playing Faction pure. I have a strong 'aesthetic' sense, and that doesn't let me play with mixed factions. Call it personal honor, scrubbiness, whatever. I just think if I can win using a force with some 'intrinsic' weaknesses against a force that uses all the best units from all factions, that reflects on my tactical skills. But at the same time, I don't bemoan the rainbow army with triple donars and tank drop. People can play whatever they want, and they should be able to do that. It just provides me with a more challenging game. I don't win all the time, and I don't expect to. But when I do, I can feel good about it.

Lastly, being the best player I can be involves how I react to my opponent about the game. I don't want to yell, or call him cheap, or get into a rules argument. I'd rather have a friendly game where we can both immerse ourselves in the tactics and have a good time. I think fellowship is under-rated, and should be more important than taking home the win for the night. Because, in the end, we are just playing a game. :)

@upgrade: I think both of your forces have potential. With the first one, I wouldn't use Jacyn as a DFAer. He's got speed and range and a long dial. I'd keep him at distance until you've gotten most of the treats tied up with ATV's/Miniguns, then close him in for the big hit. I've used the 2 Salamander/Fa Shih formation before with mixed success. When using just the three, I normally drop them out of a Zahn, which means it's a slow process of getting them into battle. The Garrot can get them there a little faster, but it's a more fragile transport. For the fast deploy, I'd use 2 Shuns and add in another infantry. With three orders, you can drop the 4 infantry into a formation that can then move or shoot, depending on the situation. As it is with your first force, you'll be using the ATV's heavily to screen your advance, and a well screened arty will give you fits. But still, I think the force is fairly solid and worth a try.

The second force is a little more rounded. I agree with ixnaydude about swapping one Sniper for 2 CE's. The PDS can be completely screened with 5 units, and they can still formation move/shoot if necessary). Catalina is a great unit, just not a deep striker. She has neither the range or the speed to take the fight to your opponents DZ until late in the game. I'd use her more as a midfield obstacle in your opponents path to the PDS. Also, without any armor, you have to be a bit careful with your arty, as a friendly hit will hurt.

Mix blocking with water for the Cat force. The Jacyn force you can use hinder as well, but try to not let your opponent capitalize on any water used for his own mechs. If you opponent has better or more mechs, limit the water on the field as much as possible, because while it will help your two, they can do without it.

@MuppetWarrior, vapor311, ixnaydude
Thanks for the input. first let me comment on Bell. He is such a cool mech and has what I feel are acceptable stats I would hate not to run him at least once (also I do not own a Andrzej anyone got one for trade). Now I really do like the suggestion to use 2 CEs in place of one of the Sniper Teams (ohh how I do love the snipers though). in fact I originally had my army built with 2 CEs and 2 Infiltrators defending the PDS and well changed it because the Snipers are just so darn nice. Well for now I will take any more input I do not have a full set of Liao units but I have a good start. Thanks for the help and will post one more army idea tonight when I get home from work.
Upgrade