You are currently viewing HCRealms.com, The Premier HeroClix Community, as a Guest. If you would like to participate in the community, please Register to join the discussion!
If you are having problems registering to an account, feel free to Contact Us.
I should be able to get mine in later today. I think we need to go back to deadlines.
Originally Posted by tidge
5% of my dissatisfaction is that I want to play a competative "comic-book battle" game, not a min/max strategy game...you guys do realize that these are little plastic figures of comic book characters?
A couple quick notes:
Wakandaman, you wrote down BB21 as the square Human Torch was attacking from....that is actually the square your target Vanisher is in. I guessed which square you meant to move to. If I'm wrong (and I probably am, let me know and I'll put Human Torch in a different square).
Also....Invisible Woman could target square EE-17 like you posted, but the damage would also damage Black Panther if you targeted that square. I figured you weren't aware that Energy Explosion also damages friendly figures, that or you just wrote the Target Square wrong. However if you were aware of this you could have done the exact same attack by targeting square EE-16. So I'll assume that's what you did.
Evil's turn begins. Clixhunter, things changed quite a bit on the left half of the map with Wakandaman's turn. Go ahead and redo that whole turn if you like.
Originally posted by Brazil Couple of Rules things:
Outwit is a free action under these rules. Free actions must be taken either before or after you move or to a combat action during your turn. Since When Black Panther's move ended, Doc Ock was still alive, he blocked PB's LOS to Yellowjacket so you couldn't Outwit anything on Yellowjacket.
Geez, Outwit is getting worse and worse. Okay I'll Outwit Absorbing Man's Super Strength then. Not that it'll do much. This different definition of free action is confusing.
Quote
To use the Fantastic Four team ability you must target a figure. Attacks using Energy Explosion do not target figures they target squares, so she gets no +1 on Doc Ock. But she hit anyway, so it didn't matter.
But it did hit both of them though. I read the text and it doesn't say you have to "target" the character, just attack them. Seriously, this TA is so weak it's not funny. Hydra and Police are inifinitely better and a lot cheaper as well. Think about it- with Hydra, your teammate doesn't have to share the same TA, and you don't need to take an action for it to work, and you get the bonus against ANY figure that you have LOS to, not just the one you attack.
Quote
Wakandaman, you wrote down BB21 as the square Human Torch was attacking from....that is actually the square your target Vanisher is in. I guessed which square you meant to move to. If I'm wrong (and I probably am, let me know and I'll put Human Torch in a different square).
Yeah, I actually meant BB26, in front of Franklin. Oops.
Quote
Invisible Woman could target square EE-17 like you posted, but the damage would also damage Black Panther if you targeted that square. I figured you weren't aware that Energy Explosion also damages friendly figures, that or you just wrote the Target Square wrong. However if you were aware of this you could have done the exact same attack by targeting square EE-16. So I'll assume that's what you did.
Ah yeah, I forgot that I changed Panther's end square, and I also didn't realise I could just target a square that has a character in it. I thought if I targetted EE16, then I would've needed to beat YJ's defense to hit them both. That's much better- this power is very cool under your rules.
Christ did not come to condemn the world, but to save it.
Free actions - Free actions under the official rules were a little abusive when it came to Outwit and Perplex. These figures were able to use these very potent powers every turn regardless of wether they were passing or taking an action. It was part of why these powers were unbalanced. My definition for Free actions actually makes things a little cleaner as each figure does everything it will be doing during it's action, no more take an action move a different figure then do something else with the first figure.
Fantastic Four may be no more powerful or maybe even less so than Hydra. I would argue that even so it is still better than it was. The FF TA is not limited to Ranged attacks like Hydra, it also doesn't require figures to be adjacent....just attack the same foe. It does give value to Alicia Masters, and it definitely requires teamwork to use effectively. If you have any suggestions for a better TA, I'd be interested to hear.
Doc will move to C-20 and attack Cap. Will use leadership to bring up his damage to 3. Needs a 7 or higher. Rolled a (1,5) 6 and missed. (No!!)
Bullseye goes to I-17
Boomerang goes to H-17
Originally Posted by tidge
5% of my dissatisfaction is that I want to play a competative "comic-book battle" game, not a min/max strategy game...you guys do realize that these are little plastic figures of comic book characters?
Free actions - Free actions under the official rules were a little abusive when it came to Outwit and Perplex. These figures were able to use these very potent powers every turn regardless of wether they were passing or taking an action. It was part of why these powers were unbalanced. My definition for Free actions actually makes things a little cleaner as each figure does everything it will be doing during it's action, no more take an action move a different figure then do something else with the first figure.
Okay, that kinda makes sense. A decent change....but it does mean that Outwit has been TRIPLE-kicked in the head!
Quote
Fantastic Four may be no more powerful or maybe even less so than Hydra. I would argue that even so it is still better than it was. The FF TA is not limited to Ranged attacks like Hydra, it also doesn't require figures to be adjacent....just attack the same foe. It does give value to Alicia Masters, and it definitely requires teamwork to use effectively. If you have any suggestions for a better TA, I'd be interested to hear.
I always felt it was fine as it is. Like I said, the way to use it is to push all your F4 figures early, which gives a momentum advantage to you (making more attacks earlier), and then everyone benefits once someone is KOed. It's a great TA to have when the majority of your team has it.
Alicia is definitly worse with the change...mostly because of her low speed. She's likely to never get into the action before being KOed.
Christ did not come to condemn the world, but to save it.
Titania will use the new Master's team ability to up Absorbing Man's Damage Value.
Absorbing Man will attack Thing. 10 AV vs. an 18 DV, roll is a 3.
It doesn't matter what I do at this point, the range figures can just keep backing up and picking me off even if I do finish off the brick in front of me.
Life goes on, long after the thrill of living is gone.
<<Okay, that kinda makes sense. A decent change....but it does mean that Outwit has been TRIPLE-kicked in the head!>>
It needed some kicking in the head. I'm thinking under these rules every tournament calibur team won't nessesarily featuer rookie Black Panther. (sorry, I know you like him)
I actually hate Rookie Black Panther- his dial is a complete injustice to the character. I like the Exp though, and under these rules he's not much better than say E IC Elektra, who's a good 14 points cheaper. Outwit sitll has a little bit of use, but it's nowhere near as good as it's cost implies- one of the weaker powers in the game under your rules.
Christ did not come to condemn the world, but to save it.
Shockman. I'm not sure what to say here, rushing across what is basically open terrain with figures who aren't strongly geared twards ranged combat may have favored the team with stronger ranged attackers. And yeah, you may have trouble closing on the ranged attackers (particularly if you don't try...Vanisher could have closed and attacked either Human Torch or Firestar needing an 8 to deal 2 clicks....instread he seems to be passing waiting for Firestar to try to shoot him again....though that worked out last time I'm not sure mathmatically it's the best plan.) Even with the open terrain, on this side of the map thus far 9 clicks of damage have been dealt via Close Combat to 3 clicks via Ranged Combat. Well 4 clicks if you want to count Firestar lighting her own hair on fire. Also both Absorbing man and Titania had reasonable ranged combat capability early on. Running shots of 4+6 range with a light object for 2 clicks. That will hit a figure at Human Torch's maximum range. I'm not trying to say that in a ranged battle your 300 point team matches up well with the 450 points worth of figures you're facing on this side of the map. I think you were a little overmatched in a ranged fight over here from the start, and the terrain on this half didn't favor you at all. That and bad rolls haven't helped you out much, you probably should have hit this turn, as should your incapacitate attack with Yellowjacket earlier. Odds favored you to put a hurting on Thing. Instead he's looking like he's gonna come out of this smelling like a big rocky rose.
<<Outwit sitll has a little bit of use, but it's nowhere near as good as it's cost implies- one of the weaker powers in the game under your rules.>>
I think that under the official rules, outwit was overly powerful for it's relatively low cost. Consider this:
* Outwit costs less per click than Impervious or Invulnerability, two powers whom outwit competely negates.
* I did not remove the number of powers Outwit could affect, that was maintained by substituting TA's for Defensive powers. (BTW, I'm taking your suggestion and putting outwit back to all powers on the defensive portion of the dial. You'll see that change in the next version when I post it.) Outwit was and still is extremely versitile. As long as you're in range of opposing figures, you can nearly always find some use for it which could disrupt your opponents strategies and plans. Under these rules Black Panther can move around in stealth and pounce on opponent's effectively, as you've demonstrated quite well. I do think that is pretty true to comic form for him. What isn't true to form for him is him trying to stay hidden in the shadows all battle magically striping away all the defensive powers of all his opponents .... particularly softening up armored bricks like Juggernaut and Count Neferia from range.
* I did make it so Outwit only works on turns the outwitter takes an action...this does weaken outwit. Too much??? Maybe??? Or could it be you're just used to outwit being one of the most Uber effective powers in the game??? I did conciously try to make Outwit weaker. I thought it was too powerful under the official rules, and it needed to be toned down so that other powers and abilites would shine and have value as well.
Without outwit being very effective so far you have managed to a pretty strong Masters of Evil team with the Fantastic Four of all people....when was the last game you played were the Fantastic Four were an effective force under the official rules? (by themselves without Outwit and Telekineses) Sure, you had Firestar and Man-Thing over here helping you out, but thus far all the two of them have managed to do is light Firestar's own head on fire.
I don't think when Wizkids originally designed the game they put much brain power into playtesting. Surely they didn't mean for a superhero game to be dominated by outwit the way it is. The likes Superman, Thor, Juggernaut, Absorbing man, Rhino, having to hide in fear from the likes of Rookie Black Panter.
"Ignore Vision, Iron Man and Thor, if we don't take out Rookie Black Panther early we're all doomed. Consentrate on him early."
I can't imagine this is what wizkids had in mind. I just think that it happened, and Wizkids hasn't put out the effort to see it's a problem and fix it...or they just don't care enough to fix it.
Oh, Wakandaman, I also changed the wording on the Fantastic Four TA for the next version so that Sue's Energy Explosion would count as an attack....really suppose with the wording I had is could (and probably should) have been used that way. (thanks for the feedback...I have fixed that for version 1.31 - To be posted after this game.)