I just had to respond to this. First, I read both DC/Marvel and have a few titles in each that I read.

-Secret Wars did come out after Crisis. Fact. (Though I personally Secret Wars more ...)

-Help me out here ... how is Hush a ripoff of Kevin Smith's Daredevil?

-Lobo is a ripoff of Wolverine? Just because they both regenerate and are "bada$$es"? C'mon ... I've never heard Wolverine say "Bastich".

-Nightwing is daredevil like? What ..they both can jump from rooftop to rooftop? Unless its a recent occurence, Nightwing still has his sight. Just remeber who the orignal hero was that jumped/swung from rooftop to rooftop ... Batman.

-Saying Silver Surfer came before Black Racer is an insult to Silver Surfer (he's a prominent character in the Marvel U whereas Black Racer is a 5th tier character. PUH-LEASE.

I agree that you have characters that are inspired by others others and that there are very few truly original new characters of late.

Secret War started in May 1984, Crisis started in early 1985. Sorry.

Ya, pretty much. Thats like saying Galidator isn't a reporter so he isn't a ripoff of Superman

I think he means Hush is a rip off of Guardian Devil in that in both stories a villian the hero doesn't know is pulling string's behind the scenes and neither hero can figure out what is going on.

Both companies are constantly ripping each other off. Young Avengers is a rip off of Teen Titans, which is a rip off of New Mutants which is a rip off of the first Teen Titans. Deadpool is a rip off of Deathstroke, Metahumans are a rip of Mutants etc...

More like a rip of off Cruise's Mission: Impossible if you ask me.
How so? Isn't the LoSH a super group from the future (30th century)? The Shiar are from a distant galaxy. Plus, you may see the Shiar once a year or two. I really don't see a comparison here other than they both are from space.
That's they way they were designed to be. Not like that's any revelation.
Deadpool, Deathstroke, Deathlok, Bullseye...whatever.
Those were so vastly different I don't see why anyone compares the two. Other than coming out around the same time and are big mini-series...there is nothing similar. One was a contest between good and evil, one was designed to streamline the continuity.
Ahh...two C and G tier characters. Hyperion we've already answered and isn't Gladiator's power very different from Supes'? His power based on his will or something like that? Supes just has to be near the sun and away from Kryptonite.
One issue...ONE issue and everyone makes this comparison. Teen Titans have been around since the 60s and all of the sudden Marvel wants to copy them?

These Marvel vs. DC arguements are kinda fun...then again...they kinda aren't.

As for the assasins and who ripped off who...


"Deadpool, Deathstroke, Deathlok, Bullseye...whatever."


Not that it matters, but DeadSHOT made his first appearance in 1959--before any of those whippersnappers.

Batman #59 from 1950, actually.

This is great!!!!!!!
What about the JLA ripping off the Avengers?
Believe it or not I've learned something with this post. Some of the crazy deranged fanboy connections you guys are making actually make sense! I wish Marvel and DC could make a short mini series that puts 50 of each universes heros up in a fight to the death. Not some watered down version but one that actually comes with some real blood and guts. Just a thought.

Man, all those Marvel guys with super powers are rip offs of Superman, cause he was the first guy with super powers! And all those vigilante's with low level powers, just rip offs of Batman! What a jip!

Getting back to the thread, Arsenal dying would make a lot of sense if he was killed by Deathstroke. Deathstroke still has a score to settle with Ollie after all.

Actually, I've never said that DC is better than Marvel. So please don't put words in my mouth.

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and that Identity crisis was great. well how come in a recent poll in wizard magazine 46% of those polled felt that identity crisis was a letdown? How could half the people who read dc's best product of the year not like it?

I suppose people are entitled to dislike it. But how is that relevant? I liked it, and that's all I care about. You're the one that likes to make assinine statements without the facts to back you up:




And your such a fan of the crapfest known as Dissassembled, which incase you hadn't noticed, was just as equally disliked as people disliked Disassembeld.

Two things...

1) Black Racer (& all the New Gods) are collectively know as: "Jack Kirby's New Gods" So yes of course many of them are going to have similarities to Kirby's previous work. That previous work being for Marvel. Much like (but more professionally done than) Rob Liefield designing Costumes (since the ideas were taken from DC) for Marvel & then using those costumes again (along w/ the DC ideas) when "writing" his Image work. Kirby just used ideas/powers, but created new costumes & variables when doing New Gods. There is nothing new under the sun etc...

2) I think its a great idea about Deathstroke (who is working w/ Calculator) to take out Roy. Luthor picked off Donna & has been seen (TT #21) talking to Calculator & saying "you know who my partner is" to Calculator... However I don't think Lex's partner is Deathstroke (who would then just be shadowing Calculator's ops rather than co-running them), but rather Vandal Savage or maybe even an off world threat like Braniac, Zod, or Neron (however all unlikely). It seems to me Luthor, Calculator, & Deathstroke all have the same goal, but Luthor (& his silent partner. A Schitzo-Batman? Hush? re-animated Blockbuster?) is going about it differently.


I'd like to see a lot of Death here w/ maybe a restart of continuity or a moving on (w/o dare I say it Batman being alive) in current continuity... & yes I know the later will never happen. I will say though that whenever Luthor has died in continuities its always been a big to do...

Never said rip off, I said response. The stories are totally different.

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How so? Isn't the LoSH a super group from the future (30th century)? The Shiar are from a distant galaxy. Plus, you may see the Shiar once a year or two. I really don't see a comparison here other than they both are from space.

I won't go too deep into this, other than to say that this has been discussed on this board ad naseum. My point here is not to sya "Yeah, well Marvel rips off DC, " but rather to let Zeb know that he likes to throw these accusations around, while being blind to the things that Marvel also does.

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That's they way they were designed to be. Not like that's any revelation.

Again, just pointing out the obvious to a person who has selective observation skills.

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Deadpool, Deathstroke, Deathlok, Bullseye...whatever.

Agreed.

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Those were so vastly different I don't see why anyone compares the two. Other than coming out around the same time and are big mini-series...there is nothing similar. One was a contest between good and evil, one was designed to streamline the continuity.

Again, not a comparison. But I have read many things, including interviews from people from Marvel, who basically said that Secret Wars was essentially thrown to gether, so that they too could have a big event. They already knew that DC was coming out with Crisis, and wanted something to compete with it. Marvel published theirs first, but it was in response to what DC was putting out.

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Ahh...two C and G tier characters. Hyperion we've already answered and isn't Gladiator's power very different from Supes'? His power based on his will or something like that? Supes just has to be near the sun and away from Kryptonite.

Gladiator is patterened after Superman, or more specifically, after Superboy, from the Legion.

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One issue...ONE issue and everyone makes this comparison. Teen Titans have been around since the 60s and all of the sudden Marvel wants to copy them?

Actually, Joey Q has pretty much said that YA is similar to the Titans. They are a young team of Avengers, just as the Titans are a young team of JLA'ers.

should've said "as people disliked Identity Crisis."

As for the Secret Wars/ Crisis thing:

I have read in several places where what I stated, is said to be true.

Secret Wars came out first, but was a response to Crisis.

I found this on Wikipedia:

While not the definitive source on such things, as I stated, it is not the only place that I have read this.

For the record, I have never read Crisis on Infinite Earths, and regard Secret Wars as one of the greatest comic events, that I have ever read.