PLEASE remember that the Thunderbolt Feat DOES NOT change the Avengers TA. All avengers still have the Avengers TA. The TA just now has a different function.

Even if they choose the original FF TA it is not the same as a figure with eht FF TA.

although the powers funciton the same they are different TA. It would be akin to a Teen Titan TA trying to work in conjunction with the X-Men TA. Although they work the same they are considered different.

So the Avengers TA with the Thunderbolt feat may have the same function as the old FF TA , but it is still Avengers.

The Old FF TA is the only TA able to use the new FF alternate feat.

got it??

wes

If they didn't get it after Funky, Lover, and 1234's posts, I somewhat think they never will....

A solid summary. I understood the limitations - having gone through the same dance of possibilites and confusion once the info was out - but a step-by-step approach is always good to have in mind for when one inevitably has to explain this to another player.

well here's a couple questions.

1-if you pick a thunderbolt ant man cpoying Alt FF with invisible woman. ant man has the old FF TA, so if invisible woman gets ko'd, does antman get a click of healing?

2-wild cards can copy alt FF if the feat is in play, do they have to or can they copy the old FF as well when a FF member gets ko'd?

cheers

1. No. Invisible Woman's TA no grants a click to other FF figures when she is KO'd. She nows gets to share her DV. If Antman is going to get a click back, another Thunderbolt (or a Wildcard copying thier Thunderbolted FF ability) has to be KO'd.

2. If the *only* FF ability available is the alternate (i.e. no Thunderbolts with the old FF TA on the team), they can only copy the alternate TA. So no healing. If both old TA and alternate TA are available, then the wildcard could copy the old FF TA and gain a click back when a Thunderbolt (using the old FF TA) is KO'd.

I tend to agree with you normalview, I've mostly been arguing for the sake of argument itself, but I think that in the case you mentioned it is unclear and that wizkids will have to rule on it one way or another.
here's another thought: the thunderbolts card says choose ANY TA that is not a wildcard TA and that or one that cannot be copied by wildcards. Why couldn't I just declare the alternate fantastic four team ability (I mean without even playing the ff card)? it is a team ability, it can be copied by wildcards, it doesn't say anywhere that the one you choose has to be a 'standard' TA or that you can't choose an alternate TA... thoughts?

Because the alternate FF TA is not a TA until the Feat becomes active. No figure, ever produced has the alternate FF TA. No figures begins play with the alternate FF TA. Essentially, until you or your opponent begins a game with the alternate FF TA Feat attached to some original FF members, that TA does not exist.

Since that TA does not exist, Thunderbolts can't choose it.

... and it *has* been ruled on, by hair10 in the Wizkids forum. Until it is an official FAQ, I realize it may be difficult to locate all the various rulings on this or that, but if you go over to the Wizkids Heroclix forum, hair has posted a nice, up to date list of questions that have come out about Fantastic Forces. It is stuck right at the top of the Rules forum. You can't miss it. Here's the bit that specifically mentions the part we are discussing:

Q: Can Tbolts copy another Alternate TA (such as Tbolts declaring Alternate FF)?
A: No. Feats don't become active until the game begins and characters must meet all prereqs before the game begins (when a player builds his force). If a character isn't an FF (such as an Avenger with Tbolts) then it can't be given the alternate FF feat before the game begins and there is no such TA to choose from (as it's a feat). Even if an FF member were on the team and it had the Alternate FF, Tbolts still couldn't declare it since all feats become active at the same time. Basically, it's not a legal "target" of choice either when building the team or declaring the chosen TA for Tbolts.

thanks for putting that on there, I hadn't seen hair10's q and a thread.

admrionheart you are mistaken... it's true that you can't have a thunderbolted avenger share defense values with the altered fantastic four both not for the reason you stated. the only team ability that says that it works only with others that are the same team member is the defender's TA all others that take two characters say another character with the same team ability. thus you could use a teen titan and an avenger that was 'bolted to the teen titan team ability even though the team affiliation remains avenger. same with wildcards and what not.

Hi, is it now official by hair10 that we can use the wildcard ability to copy the FF alternate team ability if we have someone with that team ability on my team? My judge this week and last week made me change my whole team and strategy because he says you can't do it and when I argued with him that you could he said he just read the latest official notice. Which is the truth?

For the last ####ed time, NO you can't do it. Sorry if I sound too blunt, but if you would just read this thread you just posted in, you would've had your answer within the first five posts....and it STILL hasn't changed. *shocking, I know*

From the July Marvel FAQ:

When a character with a wildcard team ability uses the team ability of a Fantastic Four member with the Fantastic Four card, the wildcard character uses the new team ability instead of the original Fantastic Four team ability.

Note, though, that Thunderbolts *can't* use alternate FF.

From the same Marvel FAQ:

Characters assigned the Thunderbolts feat may not choose a team ability that is granted by a feat card when choosing a team ability.

Maybe I'm being dense, but the answer to his question, "Can you wildcard the Alt FF TA?" was answered as "Yes" within the first five posts. (And the post after yours.) Are you agreeing or disagreeing with this (or have I missed something)?

Oh what an ### I am. lol
I swear I read him asking about the Thunderbolts TA in there....

*runs and hides*