And if you really wanted to get into "the humans always roll the dice not the figures" (which honestly seems like a petty stupid argument to initiate)... well sure, maybe... but when the humans are rolling the dice for an attack, they are rolling for attacks because they are rolling for the characters involved in the attack. In this situation there are no characters involved with any attack rolls, the "humans" are being instructed to have a roll off per the instructions of Outsmart.

If I train my dog to roll my dice for me, does that mean that my opponent can't use pc on the rolls?

Once during your turn, this character allows you to reroll
one of your dice (or die) rolls and to ignore the result of the
original roll. All dice used in the original roll must be
rerolled. A character using this power must be within 10
squares of the character for which the original roll was
made, and have a clear line of fire to that character.

Seems that u are making a die roll for the outwiter and the target of outwit.
Which is rolling for each character involved.
Which would allow a re-roll of the die.

It would be like saying that you could not re-roll for sentrys Uncertainty power b/c it says that the human rolls the D6 and that shows what power he gets.

TBH saying that something tells the players to roll the dice seems stupid also. Considering that is what the whole game is, players rolling dice for the characters.
The only things that i have seen that is not re-rollable are BFC's. Which makes since sine its not a character that is causing the effect.
Where as with feats and characters it is the character that is effecting the game.

i have to agree with maruad on this one...

the character initiating the outsmart roll is the one you would need to draw a line too, because it is that character who is getting outsmarted.

and i also don't think anyone was trying to make the argument that players always roll the dice, it was just pointing out that saying that if you need a roll off because a character did something, that means that character is the one that is being probbed.

to me it is kind of like chief's manipulate; no matter where the character on the map is that is benifitting from manipulate, you have to draw a line to chief...

to me this is similar because it says "you roll a die blah blah blah" and the lof needs to go somewhere...

i'm not saying i'm right, i'm just saying i dont see why you cant pc it...

I agree with the above; a roll is not being made for a character, it is a roll-off between players and thus not a valid target for PC.

This seems hardly worth debate.

Well, the feat that is initiating the rolls is assigned to a figure... the BFC comparison isn't apples to apples.

I'm not sure where I land on this one... but I can see two sides.

I just wanted to point out that you don't need to draw LoS to the chief when you use his manipulate power. It says "when a character would take pushing damage remove a Maniuplate token from the card, the character does not take pushing damage." It doesn't say anything about needing LoS to the figure.

Sorry if my reply was a bit harsh. I was in a bad mood and probably shouldn't have been posting on here. The bottom line is, until we get a new RA-like position under the new company, local judges have the final say. I personally would rule that it can't be rerolled. I view it as a roll between the two players similar to rolling to see who goes first or who wins in event of a tie. But there is some room for interpretation since a certain character has the Outsmart feat and a certain character is using the Outwit. As long as the local judge is consistent with the ruling it shouldn't be a problem.

The "debate" comes from the fact that because it's one Outwitter vs. another "Outwitter" (though the character may be using the Mastermind prerequisite instead), PC would seem to apply. But because the Outsmart character may not even have LOF to the Outwit character:

...then I'd say PC is probably not usable. But this could use some clarification.

I fail to see what this has to do with the conversation at hand, nor do I see what bearing LoS has on anything since LoF is what's used in Heroclix.

Just saying is all.

Emphasis mine: I don't see it that way at all. A roll is not being made for a character, the Feat initiates a roll-off between the players (i.e. "you and the opposing character's controller") thus the Outsmart roll is not a valid target for PC (unless we introduce a new mechanic that allows LOF to be drawn to the Players).

I'm looking at the Feat as it's worded and just don't see the confusion. This all strikes me as an exercise in sophistry and rules lawyering.

What about White Noise:

Here you have a figure trying to Outwit or Perplex and it requires a roll by "its controller" that cannot be rerolled. Yeah it's a BFC and not a feat but the wording is similar as is the effect.

I should have quoted him, but someone above me said that chief needed LoS to use his power. My bad bro.

I can't argue. It did need a ruling though...

But based on that, then I would be okay with no PC. I wasn't really hoping PC would be okay... but I could see two sides.

Well with all of that said, as a Judge I think (if put into the situation) I would rule it as if you have LOF to the fig with Out Smart then (if applicable by PC) you can PC the roll. That's just me. I could be wrong.