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the power states that his range value is cut in half...it is not a modifyer or a replacement value beause it does not specify it as either, it is a requirement of the power and an exclusive occurance.
I wanted to point this one out clearly.
The power doesn't NEED to say it, because the rulebook does.
Page 5: "When a character’s combat value is reduced by half, that is also a replacement value."
Thanks Harpua. Just one more quick question about this though. In the description of Pulse Wave it says :
'though wild cards using this power can use the team ability of a friendly character within range of this attack.'
What exactly does that mean? I am assuming it means a Wildcard could copy Bat Ally for 'cover' if the friendly Bat Ally was in range of the PW attack, to avoid the opposing team forcing a re-roll with PC ? What other practical uses does it have that I might be missing?
Trade to Canada. We're friendly, and we love Beavers..........
Thanks Harpua. Just one more quick question about this though. In the description of Pulse Wave it says :
'though wild cards using this power can use the team ability of a friendly character within range of this attack.'
What exactly does that mean? I am assuming it means a Wildcard could copy Bat Ally for 'cover' if the friendly Bat Ally was in range of the PW attack, to avoid the opposing team forcing a re-roll with PC ? What other practical uses does it have that I might be missing?
If Victor von Doom (wild card) is PWing and Johnny Storm (FF TA) is within the PW range Doom could still copy FF and, if Johnny is KO'ed from this attack, Doom could heal one damage.
Last edited by bigmac267; 01/24/2010 at 15:36..
Reason: Misreading
If Victor von Doom (wild card) is PWing and Johnny Storm (FF TA) is within the PW range Doom could still copy FF and, if Johnny is KO'ed from this attack, Doom could heal one damage.
While it does mean basically what you say, this particular combo doesn't work.
WIT's example is a good one.
With this one on FF, Johnny's TA is there to be copied, but for everything else, it is ignored, so there would be no healing for Doom if Johnny is KOed.
While it does mean basically what you say, this particular combo doesn't work.
WIT's example is a good one.
With this one on FF, Johnny's TA is there to be copied, but for everything else, it is ignored, so there would be no healing for Doom if Johnny is KOed.
Another TA that's good for PW-ers to copy is Suicide Squad.
If you catch manage to hit your adjacent friendly characters (and KO them, of course), you could get a nice healing boost. Obviously, this won't really be too useful top dial, but if you've got a character that has lots of PW, or late-dial PW, then they could really benefit.
While it does mean basically what you say, this particular combo doesn't work.
WIT's example is a good one.
With this one on FF, Johnny's TA is there to be copied, but for everything else, it is ignored, so there would be no healing for Doom if Johnny is KOed.
Ok- my mistake. So, is the main point that possession of a TA is ignored by Pulse Wave?
The Perplexes have no net effect until the combat value is used, but those modifiers are not lost.
Can you elaborate on this.
Quote
Rule of 3, FFrulebook pg.6
The Rule of 3 limits how much a combat value can be modified: No combat
value can be modified by more than 3. For example, if the combat value
is 3, it can’t be modified to more than 6 or less than 0.
Although the effects of powers, team abilities, battlefield conditions, and
feats override standard HeroClix rules, the Rule of 3 takes precedence
over all those effects. Replacement values are not subject to the Rule of 3.
Quote
Perplex
Once during your turn (but not during another action), as a
free action this character modifies by +1 or –1 any combat
value (including range) of a target character until the
beginning of your next turn (it can target itself). A character
using this power must be within 10 squares of the target and
have a clear line of fire to the target. This effect ends
immediately if this character loses Perplex or is defeated, or
when the target is damaged or healed.
I understand that these effects end under the bolded circumstances above, and I understand that the perplexes don't effect the game play until the combat value is used, but the Ro3 clearly states that no combat value can be modified more than 3. The Perplex free action is the act of modification. These modifiers don't seem to start or end when the combat value is used, as in the case of Defend. They take place at the time Perplex is used and last until the beginning of your next turn. I don't understand how a player can modify up a figs AV 5 times, because a planned future action will decrease the AV and bring the total back within the Ro3. Is there some official text somewhere that states this rule that perplex has no net effect until the combat is used.
Quote : Originally Posted by nbperp
Things which might lack clarity now will be certain to reflect those intentions.
Now, this next part doesn't work with PW (because powers and TA's are ignored), but HSS does allow you to se the Ro3 twice.
You have a range of 10. Perplex it by +3 for a 13. When you make your attack, you will halve that to 7, but you could again boost it with SHILED members to get a 10 range.
Just to make sure I have this correctly:
My HSS figure has a Range of 8. I Perplex it to 11, and make an HSS Attack from Range. My Range gets halved to 5 1/2, rounded up to 6. I HSS into a group of 3 friendly SHIELD figures, and use their TA to get a +3 to my Range, making my Range for the HSS Attack a 9. That is the way it works?
Trade to Canada. We're friendly, and we love Beavers..........
I don't understand how a player can modify up a figs AV 5 times, because a planned future action will decrease the AV and bring the total back within the Ro3. Is there some official text somewhere that states this rule that perplex has no net effect until the combat is used.
There are so many modifers that are not factored in until a combat value is actually used (HYDRA, SHIELD, RCE, CCE, Move and Attack, etc) that it would be impossible to always predict some 'future action' and all possible permutations. So, rather than say, "Hey now, you can't Perplex that because maybe, just maybe, there'll be a HYDRA bonus later," we just add the modifiers as we wish.
Then, when a combat value is used, add up all the modifiers (positive and negative). If the total modifer is greater than 3 (or less than -3), then it is capped at 3 (-3).
Could it have been spelled out more clearly? Perhaps.
Does anything in the current wording say that it can't be done this way? Certainly not.
My HSS figure has a Range of 8. I Perplex it to 11, and make an HSS Attack from Range. My Range gets halved to 5 1/2, rounded up to 6. I HSS into a group of 3 friendly SHIELD figures, and use their TA to get a +3 to my Range, making my Range for the HSS Attack a 9. That is the way it works?
Indeed.
For the first batch of modifiers, your normal range is 8, so 11 is the maximum it can reach with modifiers.
After the replacement, your normal range is 6, so the max it can reach with modifiers is 9.
There are so many modifers that are not factored in until a combat value is actually used (HYDRA, SHIELD, RCE, CCE, Move and Attack, etc) that it would be impossible to always predict some 'future action' and all possible permutations. So, rather than say, "Hey now, you can't Perplex that because maybe, just maybe, there'll be a HYDRA bonus later," we just add the modifiers as we wish.
Then, when a combat value is used, add up all the modifiers (positive and negative). If the total modifer is greater than 3 (or less than -3), then it is capped at 3 (-3).
Could it have been spelled out more clearly? Perhaps.
Does anything in the current wording say that it can't be done this way? Certainly not.
The rule of three is worded pretty clearly, IMO. And it doesn't say anything about combat values having to be used. The combat values are present, even when they are not being used.
My point was that it would not be complicated at all to just just apply modifications in the order they occur, and keep count as you go. Very simple. Perplex specifically cannot be used during another action, like the powers and TAs that you mentioned that do work that way. Therefore you could only perplex an unmodified combat value up 3 times (before a combat action). The limit has been reached at that point and can not be exceeded, or added to unless some other effect(after the perplex action) reduces or replaces the already modified value.
I don't know why timing rules would not be implemented in the modification of combat values. Everything in this game happens by specific timing, or order of events. Some effects happen at the same time like the damage taken and damage healed for Steal Energy, but for the most part, actions and effects happen in sequence. I'm just curious as to why combat value modifications would not be. Especially in the case of Perplex.
Quote : Originally Posted by nbperp
Things which might lack clarity now will be certain to reflect those intentions.
The rule of three is worded pretty clearly, IMO. And it doesn't say anything about combat values having to be used. The combat values are present, even when they are not being used.
My point was that it would not be complicated at all to just just apply modifications in the order they occur, and keep count as you go. Very simple. Perplex specifically cannot be used during another action, like the powers and TAs that you mentioned that do work that way. Therefore you could only perplex an unmodified combat value up 3 times (before a combat action). The limit has been reached at that point and can not be exceeded, or added to unless some other effect(after the perplex action) reduces or replaces the already modified value.
I don't know why timing rules would not be implemented in the modification of combat values. Everything in this game happens by specific timing, or order of events. Some effects happen at the same time like the damage taken and damage healed for Steal Energy, but for the most part, actions and effects happen in sequence. I'm just curious as to why combat value modifications would not be. Especially in the case of Perplex.
Your line of thinking would prevent RCE from being used if you've been Perplexed up twice.
Your line of thinking would prevent RCE from being used if you've been Perplexed up twice.
Another instance I can think of would be ES/D and Combat Reflexes. Take CR Nightwing for example (since he has both) I Perplex up his +3. An opposing figure attempts to make a close combat attack against him. The Rule of 3 caps his at 20 on his first click. My opponent misses, and then TKs a figure into position to Force Blast him out of hindering terrain. My opponent then Outwits his SP that grants ES/D and CR. Nightwing still gets the +3 to his from the Perplex.
Trade to Canada. We're friendly, and we love Beavers..........
The rule of three is worded pretty clearly, IMO. And it doesn't say anything about combat values having to be used. The combat values are present, even when they are not being used.
My point was that it would not be complicated at all to just just apply modifications in the order they occur, and keep count as you go. Very simple. Perplex specifically cannot be used during another action, like the powers and TAs that you mentioned that do work that way. Therefore you could only perplex an unmodified combat value up 3 times (before a combat action). The limit has been reached at that point and can not be exceeded, or added to unless some other effect(after the perplex action) reduces or replaces the already modified value.
I don't know why timing rules would not be implemented in the modification of combat values. Everything in this game happens by specific timing, or order of events. Some effects happen at the same time like the damage taken and damage healed for Steal Energy, but for the most part, actions and effects happen in sequence. I'm just curious as to why combat value modifications would not be. Especially in the case of Perplex.
Say a character has Energy Shield/Deflection. Can I perplex his defense up +2? If he's hit by a ranged attack, that would be +4, so one of those perplexes, according to you, couldn't have happened. But if he's hit with close combat, it wouldn't be a problem.
In the above scenario, is the +2 modifier "there" or not? If you say it's there, then why is it different for move/attack and the attack value with +5?