I would say no he does not take the damage,because the MM character is dealt damage but chooses to have the damage dealt to a friendly/heimdall. And the damage is coming from a character using R/S, HSS,Charge and Heimdalls SP says when they are using these powers not that they have to be making an attack on him even though MM says it is not an attack they are still using these powers.

Well, that is because the power specifically says the penetrating carries over. I would think penetrating damage is different than the source of the damage.

I would like to see how these two rulings are decided on now that we have this discussion of Heimdal and the previous discussion of Fenris Wolf and the Asgard Keyword.

Basically, what carries over, or how does the origin of the damage compute into the final damage of the MM figure

???

I missed this one.

Ok, I found it.

Couple questions on that:

Wouldn't the properties still carry over? In the event of damage from the Turret, it's still properties of an object which then kick in for the NanoArmor.

So if that is the case wouldn't the properties of the attack coming from RS/CH/HSS still activate for Heimdall?

I think "additional effects" and "properties" are two different things, which is why I am trying to find a clear answer on these.

Wolverine Charges Doom and deals 3 damage to Doom with Exploit Weakness. Doom masterminds the Damage to Heimdal

-----Now, Doom would have been dealt 3 penetrating damage from Wolverine, but he Masterminded it, so would Heimdal take:
A) 3 penetrating damage;
B) 0 damage as a result of Wolverine using Charge?

My guess would be 3 Penetrating, because the additional effect is Penetrating damage from EW. He used Charge on Doom, not Heimdal, so his power would not be taken into account.


------Now, let's use Hercules carrying a Heavy object and Doom next to Spider-Man who has Nano Armor. Herc hits Doom with the HO, but Doom Masterminds the 5 damage to Spider-Man. Does Spider-Man take:
A) All 5 clicks because that is what Doom would have been dealt;
B) Does Spider-Man only take 3 because of the object?

My guess is 5 clicks, ,because the object would not be a factor in the damage to Spider-Man. I would not think using an object is an additional effect, but rather a modification to the damage (like perplex)

I will leave the Fenris discussion in the other thread. It would be nice to get a clarification, though.

Well, this isn't really an accurate example as Penetrating doesn't really matter to Heimdall. He doesn't Reduce anything, his SP just states he takes no damage.



Better example, to which I'd think he'd only take the 3 from Hercules' natural damage.

Not worried about the Fenris discussion, but the quote point is what I needed.

He DOES take the damage. He isn't taking the damage from HSS/RS/Charge. He is being dealt damage BY the character with Mastermind. He also doesn't get to make his Super Senses roll. It is not an attack. The damage is being transferred from another character via MM and not being dealt directly from a move and attack power. Period.

If it were as simple as that then Penetrating damage that is MM'd to an Imp figure would no longer be Penetrating.

So by your argument the PB/EX/Meteorite would lose it's effect when MM'd to She-Hulk.

The type of damage remains constant but the origin does change via mastermind.

The example was more for the use of charge. I added penetrating into it to show that penetrating would carry over, but not the fact that he used charge


This is what I was trying to get at. Origin does matter. Even though HSS/ RS/ Charge were used, they were used on the MM character, not Heimdal. So, the damage is being dealt by Mastermind, not the character using the power

I would think you would have to ignore the damage. Just like you would take damage from a penetrating attack being mastermind. You cannot reduce damage from a penetrating attack being mastermind. All the properties of the attack are still implied when taking damage or not taking damage.


Mastermind (OPTIONAL) Each time this character would be dealt damage, you can instead choose to have all the damage be dealt to a single adjacent friendly character with a lower point value than this character’s. If the damage resulted from an attack with knock back, the character that takes the damage is knocked back. If a character is defeated by damage dealt us ing this power, it is considered to have been defeated by the character that originally dealt the damage. Damage dealt by this power is not an attack.

· Damage dealt from knockback (from hitting a wall or falling) may be dealt to other characters by using Mastermind, if the other characters are adjacent to the square in which the knocked-back character stops.
· Any damage that is dealt as a result of Mastermind retains any of the properties that it had when dealt to the original character. Penetrating will still be penetrating, damage that includes objects are still treated as such, etc.· Damage transferred with Mastermind can only be directed to one character, even if the damage transferred is more than enough to KO the adjacent character.
· If the attack dealt knock back, when the damage is transferred, the adjacent character would be knocked back away from the attacker (not necessarily the Masterminder).
· Damage that is transferred with this power is still damage dealt and is subject to damage reducing powers.· Mastermind only works against damage dealt. Abilities like Mystics that generate damage taken and therefore cannot be transferred with this power.

The damage dealt to the figure with MM is NOT dealt via HSS, RS, or Charge...those are just ways to get to the target to hit them, they do not have any effect whatsoever on damage. PB/EW are properties of the DAMAGE (not the way the attack was made), so the MMed damage would just be damage. The source is the same, an attack. The attack was against the figure with MM who apparently does not care if the damage came from any move-and-attack power. The damage gets masterminded, so any of the properties of DAMAGE get transferred, not properties of how the attack was made to begin with.
If Loki was RSed by Cap and MMed the damage to Heimdall, then Heimdall would take the damage.

I think heimdall would take dame from the attack becasue reading " MASTERMIND;When this character would be dealt damage, you may instead choose to have all the damage be dealt to a single adjacent friendly character with a point value less than this character’s. Any additional effects of the damage dealt (knock back, penetrating damage, etc.) are applied to the character taking the damage. Damage dealt by this power is not an attack.

Charge, RS are not effcts of damage but movment only, whichthen grants a free range or close combat attack. I undestrand the the argument of addtional effects, but charge and RS are'nt doing that, Pulsewave and PB/penatraing do have damge effects.

This came up again so the verdict is he takes damage right?

Nevermind Norm told my brother it doesn't matter Heimdall takes damage.