You would be suprised sometimes FeintOfHearts. but I think because the trait starts with "At the beginning of your turn" they figured everyone would expect the ability to end at the beginning of your next turn when you role the dice again

I see where you're going, but adding "until the beginning of your next turn" would change the dynamic.

Werewolf controller rolls Full Moon at the beginning of turn 1. Rolls a 3. Werewolf can use shapechange. Werewolf spends a free action to pilot a Batcycle. Because werewolves on motorcycles are cool.

Werewolf controller has no other characters with Full Moon. While Werewolf is piloting, you wouldn't be rolling for Full Moon since the Biker-Wolf is off the board.

During Round 3, the Batcycle gets KOd. Werewolf gets placed on the map. Werewolf still has Shape Change, since no roll has transpired since the first one.

If Full Moon listed "until the beginning of your next turn", Biker-Wolf would have no Shape Change in that scenario.

Leadership is an action. I'm not really sure if that is going to help my point or not...probably not, but it also stipulates that 'for that turn' 2 things happen. So, I disagree with what you say. Leadership does indeed contain a stipulation on when the effects end. As soon as it is not "that turn" anymore, Leadership ends. Actually, now that I read it again, when the action for Leadership resolves, all effects would end. The reason we can still get the +1 action is because it specifically says "that turn" which overrides the normal end time (end of action).

Ok, it can be argued, as I believe you are saying that the second part about removing a token comes after the "for that turn" phrase. Fine no end, however since the removing of tokens is a once and done thing, then is Werewolf then only limited to a single use of Shape Change? In other words if my opponent rolls 3 for Full Moon and ends his turn and I then attack said Werewolf with Doc Oc and then with Hobgoblin, the attack that Hobgoblin makes will not be subject to Shape Change?

No, you may remove a token every time you roll a 5 or 6 for Leadership. Just like Werewolf can use Shape Change every time he rolls a 1, 2, or 3 for Full Moon. Use of Shape Change is conditional upon rolling a 1-3. If you roll it, you have it. If you don't roll it, you don't have it.

I didn't make my point clear. Sorry.

Hopefully this helps me explain myself better:

Each time I roll a d6 and 1-3 comes up I can use Shape Change. I also get a second benefit till the end of my turn or until I take damage.

I roll.
2.
I can use Shape Change.
Is there any condition in which I don't use Shape Change but lose the ability to do so?
No.
So I can potentially keep this use of Shape Change till the end of the game assuming I never get attacked.

The difference with Leadership is:

I can take a free action at the beginning of my turn to roll a d6. Each time I roll and 5-6 comes up I gain one action for my action pool this turn and can remove an action token.
I roll.
6.
I gain an action this turn.
I now have the option of removing an action token.
Is there any condition in which I don't remove an action token but still lose the option of doing so?
Yes. The end of the free action.
Leadership ends, I can no longer use the token removal benefit of Leadership so I can no longer remove the action token.


Just in case my playing devil's advocate has been forgotten, I agree that it should be that Werewolf can use SC until you roll again, but as it is phrased it is either a "Werewolf gains a single use of SC." or "Werewolf gains the use of SC (with no end)." It can not be "Werewolf gains SC until the player rolls Full Moon again."

Does The Full Moon power get around 1st Turn Immunity?

Played a game the other day where I rolled a 5 for it first turn. Was kinda mad that I took 3 clix on WW by Night who didn't even take an action.

How does Pulse Wave fit into this? Would PW ignore the effects from the trait? This is for if he clicked to 11, and he was hit with PW.

Were I to hazard a guess, I would say that the embolden'd part above is not stated because gaing Shape Change or turning to Click 11 is conditional on the result of a Full Moon roll, and stating the "until" is functionally redundant.
If you make that roll, either 1-3 or 4-6, then you have that effect. The Turning to Click 11 option comes with built in rules for when that ends, either with damage or reaching the end of your turn. Shape Change, in my opinion, does not have any such wording because, so long as you keep rolling 1-3 on Full Moon, you keep Shape Change. As soon as you roll a 4-6, you no longer meet the requirement for Shape Change, thus you can no longer use it.

Threads like this make me loathe the fact that this game does not have a clear, concise lexicon of game terms that would define game mechanics like this. Understanding of rules that are written like this can only readily come from reading the Player's Guide, and are helped out from Thread-surfing on this site. Even when you run into similarly worded effects, you can't even take for granted that they work in the same fashion, and we all have to wait for word to be passed down from the Oranges on what the intent of Game Design was.

So, this is how it's supposed to work, for now at least. If you wish to continue Advocating, enjoy. I don't see any point in repeating myself anymore.

First Round Immunity applies to characters who have not been given an action, been placed, or been moved. Rolling for Full Moon is none of these. So long as the other three conditions were met, then your Werewolf should have still had FRI.

Pulse Wave vs. Shape Change is easy. It is ignored.
As for Click 11, I would hope that the following line from the Player's Guide would apply:

Game effects which alter the way a figure is KO‘d or otherwise defeated cannot be ignored.

Since Werewolf is not designed, under normal non-Pulse Wave conditions, to be KO'd from click 11 to click 12, I would think that you would still Click it from 11 back to 2 before applying the Pulse Wave damage.

Yeah I figured as much for Shape Change. I was curious about that Pulse Wave bit, hasn't happened yet but I figured I'd ask first so that way I would know for future reference, thanks dairoka

Did I get that right? (joking in case the emoticon didn't make that clear)

Seriously though, you had to add the 'until Full Moon is rolled again' to make what you say true. There is no such wording in the trait itself. Ergo, rolling again doesn't effect prior results. The only thing that can be said is if you roll 1-3 on turn 1 and then roll 1-3 on turn 2, you don't gain Shape Change again because you already have the use of Shape Change and can't double up per the rules.

If X happens then you can use Y.
Each time X happens you can use Y.

There is a fundamental difference in the two sentences.

If X happens then you can use Y.
If X happens then you can use Y until Z.

The difference is more obvious here.

Its also worth noting that the end of your turn comes before you're opponent's next turn so only you could ever PW your Werewolf off click 11.

Solve for X:
if X = 1-3, do A. use Shape Change
if X = 4-6, do B. go to Click 11

But, if you solved for X once and got a 1-3, but solved for X this time and got 4-6, there's no reason you should stop doing A, because there was nothing there to hold your hand and tell you, "Really, please stop doing A. You're better than that. Just do B now. Really. It's B. Seriously. Leave the Horse alone.". So, do A and B, because you want to. No matter how many times you were told to do just B. They're not the boss of you. You do what you want!

Or if your opponent had Big Figure.

He would be KO'd. PW would ignore the trait. This doesn't change how he is KO'd, since he is KO'd like most characters are, by having KO's appear in the stat slot.

Moral of the story, don't pulse wave your own werewolves.

I love these little guys. They are prone to being one-shotted, but that's appropriate at that point cost, and they have the potential to be little BUZZ-SAWS!

Ran three of them with Cap-Wolf as part of a Monster team last night. They were WAY better than I expected.

Nothing in the power says that both can't be true at the same time. Your example is true on for any given roll, but does not carry over from round to round. Unless/Until we are given a specific end point, then none exists. No factual evidence offered thus far has said contrary. Show me where in the trait text, rules, PG, FAQ, errata it says the ability to use Shape Change ends. Outside of that we are just running around in circles so, yeah...its time for us to let the horse lie.

Big Figure allows attacks not actions. No PW due to Big Figure's SP.