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I read both game effects. You are counting range. Ok. Now what? Do you want IP to punch thru falcon? you can't. To use GR you have to give them a action that includes a close combat attack to count squares 2 away as adjacent. What action would you give IP that you could use thru the Falcon that includes a Close Combat Attack?
I can see both sides... he's not technically punching THROUGH the Falcon, he's just using the Falcon's sight to see the person, then slapping them with his gigantic reach. I totally agree that it's not the intent of it, but the wording does work... if that doesn't make sense, read my signature.
-Heroclix is not a game of logic, it's a game of strategy .... after all, when's the last time that you saw a giant (using a stealth ability) that was hiding behind a swingset... and nobody could SEE him????
I read both game effects. You are counting range. Ok. Now what? Do you want IP to punch thru falcon? you can't. To use GR you have to give them a action that includes a close combat attack to count squares 2 away as adjacent. What action would you give IP that you could use thru the Falcon that includes a Close Combat Attack?
quote me where say IP canīt be given a action to meke a close combat attack??? and how about using his mind control or some power (like quake, exploit weakness, steal energy, etc) granted by a external source or a simple attack to avoid ESD, Flash point TA or some other effects??
the fact you donīt think in the possibilities donīt make that this donīt work
if you can draw a LoF with a range of 2, not only IP, also fantomex, prof X and Dr.strange can do the same.
"Iron Pharaoh can draw lines of fire and count range" is the same script as Dr. Strange (with his Astral Stranges) and GSX Prof X (with his X-Men)... you can only make ranged attacks when it's LOF-based. Also, if you base Iron Pharaoh, he can't make a ranged combat attack.
Not quite
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IN CONTACT WITH CEREBRO: If Professor X is in your starting area, he can draw lines of fire and count Range for his Speed, Attack, and Damage powers from the square of any friendly character with whom he shares a keyword.
For Professor X, it's says he can do it for his Speed, Attack and Damage powers. Meaning his Mind Control, Psi Blast, Incap, Outwit and Preplex.
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CONCENTRATE ON ONE PROJECTION: Give Dr. Strange a free action and choose an opposing character adjacent to a friendly Astral Dr. Strange. This turn, Dr. Strange can target that character regardless of range, squares, or line of fire when making a ranged combat attack or using Outwit or Perplex.
For Dr. Strange, it specifies making a ranged attack, or using Outwit or Perplex.
Quote
GOLDEN FALCON, SOARING: When Iron Pharaoh is first placed on the map, place a Falcon special terrain marker in an adjacent square. Give Iron Pharaoh a free action to move this marker up to 3 squares. Iron Pharaoh can draw lines of fire and count range (up to 3 squares) from the Falcon marker using Improved Targeting: Ignores Hindering Terrain, Ignores Elevated Terrain, Ignores Outdoor Blocking Terrain, Ignores Characters.
For the Iron Pharoah, it just says that it can Draw line of fire and count range from the Falcon Marker.
Giant Reach states
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This character ignores opposing characters’ Plasticity and adds 1 to its d6 roll when breaking away. This character can use the Carry ability. When this character is given an action that includes a close combat attack, all squares within a range of 2 and line of fire are considered adjacent. This ability can’t be countered.
As has been said before, you're counting Range and line of fire from the Falcon. I don't see why by the rules, this wouldn't be legal.
I will say I highly doubt it's in the intent though.
Pretty sure that IP works like E.V.A. and fantomex.
I thought the ruling on that was that giant-reach on fantomex would let him melee through E.V.A.
Though I could be mistaken.
Either way if we get the answer for one, I think it is fair to say we have the answer for the other.
As I see the argument it seems syllogistically sound
1. You can only close combat attack things that are adjacent
2. Giant reach allows you to treat things within range (of 2 squares) and LOF (to the target squares) as adjacent
3. Golden falcon lets you count range and LOF from its square
This seems to lead to the conclusion of
4. IP can count squares from golden falcon, which includes squares for counting giant-reach. Thus if he has giant-reach he will treat characters within 2 squares and LOF from the falcon as adjacent, and thus be able to close-combat attack them.
Put together you would read the various clauses of the relevant abilities together as
Iron pharaoh may make close combat attacks against characters [modification from giant's reach: within two squares and line of fire[modification from golden eagle:from the golden eagle]as if they were adjacent].
I exploited this today.. it's eeeeevil. My opponent managed to knock my IP to his last click.. Dropped Angrir's Hammer down and started quaking every turn, via hammer drops, after picking it up.. Was back to click 2 before I knew it, and the people I were quaking were on the other side of the map..
I exploited this today.. it's eeeeevil. My opponent managed to knock my IP to his last click.. Dropped Angrir's Hammer down and started quaking every turn, via hammer drops, after picking it up.. Was back to click 2 before I knew it, and the people I were quaking were on the other side of the map..
this is the evil tactic that i think when originally ask
this is the evil tactic that i think when originally ask
The only issue was I kept forgetting I was close combating so when I had finished off my quake victims I switched to range attacks of a closer opponent and had to be reminded I couldn't steal energy. :P
Heh, sorry. I caught the thread a couple of days ago and its been under discussion. I should have posted as such. Yes, this looks totally legal according to the rules as has been shown by previous posters. This is definitely not intended and we are determining the best way to fix the problem.
"Iron Pharaoh can draw lines of fire and count range" is the same script as Dr. Strange (with his Astral Stranges) and GSX Prof X (with his X-Men)... you can only make ranged attacks when it's LOF-based. Also, if you base Iron Pharaoh, he can't make a ranged combat attack.
Played a tournament this weekend with IP. The judge ruled that you could make a ranged attack with the falcon if IP was based because you were drawing lines of fire from the falcon, not IP.
"Это курам на смех" Simon Tam - Serenity (Eta kuram na smekh)
Played a tournament this weekend with IP. The judge ruled that you could make a ranged attack with the falcon if IP was based because you were drawing lines of fire from the falcon, not IP.
The judge ruled it wrong. If the character is adjacent to an enemy it cannot make a ranged combat attack (unless it has some form of Improved Targeting, that is). It does not matter where the line of fire is being drawn from.
The flip side of this is that an enemy that is adjacent to the Falcon can still be shot by Iron Pharaoh as long as IP is not adjacent to an enemy.
The judge ruled it wrong. If the character is adjacent to an enemy it cannot make a ranged combat attack (unless it has some form of Improved Targeting, that is). It does not matter where the line of fire is being drawn from.
The flip side of this is that an enemy that is adjacent to the Falcon can still be shot by Iron Pharaoh as long as IP is not adjacent to an enemy.
What about this:
Iron Pharaoh can draw lines of fire and count range (up to 3 squares) from the Falcon marker using Improved Targeting: Ignores Hindering Terrain, Ignores Elevated Terrain, Ignores Outdoor Blocking Terrain, Ignores Characters.
Can IP still do a ranged attack even if he's based, or is this just referring to the falcon?
"Это курам на смех" Simon Tam - Serenity (Eta kuram na smekh)
What about this:
Iron Pharaoh can draw lines of fire and count range (up to 3 squares) from the Falcon marker using Improved Targeting: Ignores Hindering Terrain, Ignores Elevated Terrain, Ignores Outdoor Blocking Terrain, Ignores Characters.
Can IP still do a ranged attack even if he's based, or is this just referring to the falcon?
He can't. He is still trying to make a ranged combat attack while adjacent to an opposing character and he has nothing that allows him to do it.