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Right, but until that part was pointed out to me, I couldn't find a reference to "Size" in the rule book or players guide. Didn't even think to look at the PAC.
Might be something to add to the Glossary in the rule book.
I wasn't posting that for you. A lot of people don't read carefully, or... something. So I've noticed a trend that when questions are answered with ONLY Rules Quotes which should (And do) answer the question, a few people tend to chime in with "So does it work or not!?"
I am not in any way, shape or form criticizing how Chrosdosmil answered the question. I was merely throwing that in there as a "Cliff Notes" if you will.
Quote : Originally Posted by Puuka
Why would it be ignored?
Aren't Powers ignored when a figure becomes a Pilot?
aqhoffman- greatest post possibly ever
jtallday- Jon I wouldn't challenge you if I wasn't sure you are wrong cuz I don't have that kind of energy.
Since when did giants stop blocking LOF between colossals?
I was definitely under the impression that both a giant and a colossal are on elevation [insert large number of choice here], and block LOF to others who are either giant or colossal.
Not too long ago. 2012 Rulebook I believe. Whenever Tiny was introduced. 90% sure of that.
aqhoffman- greatest post possibly ever
jtallday- Jon I wouldn't challenge you if I wasn't sure you are wrong cuz I don't have that kind of energy.
I wasn't posting that for you. A lot of people don't read carefully, or... something. So I've noticed a trend that when questions are answered with ONLY Rules Quotes which should (And do) answer the question, a few people tend to chime in with "So does it work or not!?"
I am not in any way, shape or form criticizing how Chrosdosmil answered the question. I was merely throwing that in there as a "Cliff Notes" if you will.
No worries.
Quote
Aren't Powers ignored when a figure becomes a Pilot?
Not sure. I thought EB was one of those that had some sort of exception.
So, if I have a colossal, a giant and a regular sized figure like this
(O is a blank square)
COGOR
The giant won't block LoF to the Regular, because line of fire 'to and from' colossals isn't blocked by giants (because they are smaller)?
This seems contradictory to the intent behind the mechanics for firing between elevations, since going from 3 to 1, through 2 would be blocked, I would expect that going from intinity-billion (colossal) to 1 (regular) through 2+ (giant) would be blocked.
So, if I have a colossal, a giant and a regular sized figure like this
(O is a blank square)
COGOR
The giant won't block LoF to the Regular, because line of fire 'to and from' colossals isn't blocked by giants (because they are smaller)?
This seems contradictory to the intent behind the mechanics for firing between elevations, since going from 3 to 1, through 2 would be blocked, I would expect that going from intinity-billion (colossal) to 1 (regular) through 2+ (giant) would be blocked.
Characters are not terrain. The terrain rules on LoF therefore have nothing to do with the rules for LoF in regard to characters.
It is generally not a good practice to make assumptions about one mechanic based off of a completely different mechanic.
So, if I have a colossal, a giant and a regular sized figure like this
(O is a blank square)
COGOR
The giant won't block LoF to the Regular, because line of fire 'to and from' colossals isn't blocked by giants (because they are smaller)?
This seems contradictory to the intent behind the mechanics for firing between elevations, since going from 3 to 1, through 2 would be blocked, I would expect that going from intinity-billion (colossal) to 1 (regular) through 2+ (giant) would be blocked.
Correct. Giant Man won't block LOF to Galactus. Wasp (tiny) won't block LOF from Hawkeye to Bullseye etc... I think it was a very good rules change that is rare in that it's both more intuitive AND tighter mechanically.
aqhoffman- greatest post possibly ever
jtallday- Jon I wouldn't challenge you if I wasn't sure you are wrong cuz I don't have that kind of energy.
When the colossal becomes a pilot, all of its game effects are ignored, including Earthbound.
And as was ruled back when I thought of using Earthbound to make the Batwing become a legal pilot, apparently once a character becomes an illegal pilot, they immediately get kicked out.
I remember having lots of arguments about this, but I can't remember what it was about (possibly because it was still legal then to mind control an opposing figure into being a pilot... which ought to become an illegal pilot, but it wasn't getting kicked out back then since only Battle Fury kicks you out... except that things other than Battle Fury kick you out (such as the whole ignoring Earthbound issue)...).
When the colossal becomes a pilot, all of its game effects are ignored, including Earthbound.
And as was ruled back when I thought of using Earthbound to make the Batwing become a legal pilot, apparently once a character becomes an illegal pilot, they immediately get kicked out.
I remember having lots of arguments about this, but I can't remember what it was about (possibly because it was still legal then to mind control an opposing figure into being a pilot... which ought to become an illegal pilot, but it wasn't getting kicked out back then since only Battle Fury kicks you out... except that things other than Battle Fury kick you out (such as the whole ignoring Earthbound issue)...).
Madness. Oh well, it was fun when I got to play Galactus with the Batwing as his Herald and zipping around in it until it was dead, then kicking butt on whatever else was left on the field.
I believe the EB would not be ignored until after the figure became a pilot. So while adjacent you check size ( from EB) and or to become pilot. Once the figure is a pilot the remaining effect take place, ie then the EB would be ignored. The figure would remain a pilot despite now being 'bigger' than the vehicle.
I believe the EB would not be ignored until after the figure became a pilot. So while adjacent you check size ( from EB) and or to become pilot. Once the figure is a pilot the remaining effect take place, ie then the EB would be ignored. The figure would remain a pilot despite now being 'bigger' than the vehicle.
That's the sort of sound reasoning that I tried using to explain why I thought using Earthbound on the Batwing would make it into a valid pilot who would be able to drive the Batmobile.
However, an orange ruled that (despite all evidence to the contrary) the Batwing would immediately be ejected.
Therefore, I assume the same thing would happen with an Earthbounded giant/colossal.
It is because you constantly check the pilot for anything that would make them ineligible to begin piloting. If you can't become a pilot, you can't stay a pilot. The wording should be clarified in the PG to explain this, in my opinion.
Sun Tzu Clan Leader
Quote : Originally Posted by Uberman
When a game hums along, full of action and excitement, it's a barnburner!
When it trudges forward glacially, bogged down by debates over ridiculous rules minutia, it's a Barnstable!
So my follow-up to that would be if they can become a pilot, get in the vehicle, then they are ejected, they can be ejected on the other side of the vehicle, and take 1 damage, right? Such a corner case, but perhaps useful.
It is because you constantly check the pilot for anything that would make them ineligible to begin piloting. If you can't become a pilot, you can't stay a pilot. The wording should be clarified in the PG to explain this, in my opinion.
I think you can get around this for Battle Fury. If you somehow would gain Battle Fury while already a pilot it would be ignored due to this clause:
Quote
... all of a pilot's powers and abilities are ignored, unless a game effect specifies it activates when the character is a pilot.
Since Battle Fury doe not specifically say it activates when the character is a pilot it is ignored. Since it is ignored the character fails the check for "can use Battle Fury" and is allowed to remain a pilot.
This does not work with the Size restriction though as character Size is based off of combat symbols and outside of the the rare non-power size modification there would be nothing that would not be ignored by being a pilot.
As an example along this line, say Groot became the pilot of the Bug on click 6, then activates the vehicle combat modifier replacement effect and then clicks to 7. His Floral Colossus Sprout would make him ineligible to be a pilot but it is ignored and he can keep driving the vehicle around.
Quote
FLORAL COLOSSUS SPROUT: Non-optional. Groot has , a range of 4, and can't be moved
I think you can get around this for Battle Fury. If you somehow would gain Battle Fury while already a pilot it would be ignored due to this clause:
Since Battle Fury doe not specifically say it activates when the character is a pilot it is ignored. Since it is ignored the character fails the check for "can use Battle Fury" and is allowed to remain a pilot.
This does not work with the Size restriction though as character Size is based off of combat symbols and outside of the the rare non-power size modification there would be nothing that would not be ignored by being a pilot.
As an example along this line, say Groot became the pilot of the Bug on click 6, then activates the vehicle combat modifier replacement effect and then clicks to 7. His Floral Colossus Sprout would make him ineligible to be a pilot but it is ignored and he can keep driving the vehicle around.
Is it the case that when a character has their powers ignored, they are not considered a character that can use those powers?
Sun Tzu Clan Leader
Quote : Originally Posted by Uberman
When a game hums along, full of action and excitement, it's a barnburner!
When it trudges forward glacially, bogged down by debates over ridiculous rules minutia, it's a Barnstable!
Is it a safe assumption that if you the use the Pym particles: shrink ability on a colossal that he will remain tiny as a pilot and bypass the ejection system?
Giant man grown Ant-man and Ant-man shrinks Giant man
And is there any way to assign a character the avengers keyword? be cool if you could make the batwing tiny for a fight