http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpo...2&postcount=56

Here's one post where the general understanding of the glossary being in essence "useless" is confirmed.

Aaaaand her we go....
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpo...1&postcount=98

I think this is a great point of comparison. I also believe Mystique would roll, it's just our hypothetical attacker doesn't care what the result is.

I know you were trying to help, but I at least, already had all that information. If you look at my second post you'll see I mention this. The thing is is that the ATTACKER pretends SC doesn't exist. But the DEFENDER isn't pretending it doesn't exist. So I'm not sure if the Defender still rolls it or not. Nor am I sure if the "extra effects" are extra effects of SC. It's all up to the deps and how they read the wording. For example Professor X was ruled that removing tokens is a "extra effect" of Leadership but Scar's Undead Guardian is NOT an extra effect of Steal Energy.

So like I said, I myself am not sure, but those quotes didn't change it either way.

I wouldn't say useless. I would say SPECIFICITY always wins in Heroclix. And the glossary is the least specific.

Yea, I regretted the word "useless" as soon as I posted it.

I think this all hinges on if the roll happens or not. If the roll happens, and she rolls a six... then I just dunno. I would like it to be that she can't be attacked.

Yeah, the problem is for it to work we need it ruled that you still roll if the attacker is ignoring SC (And I'm not sure if you do, but then again "ignore" seems to be whatever "fits the intent" at the moment), and THEN it needs to be that her trait is NOT just an extra effect of SC and can work AFTER she has already been targetted. That's a lot of if's.

@darkobiwan: Thanks for the links. I find it odd that the Rules Arbs recommended to disregard the Glossary (to some extent), though. Not every player prints out tournament rules and errata; it's a good practice.

Given that the Rulebook usually comes with a Starter, if that's the only relevant document available, you're forced to use it, even if it's not accurate or current.

Thanks. I normally post all relevant info (from PAC/Rulebook) out of habit.

If the attacker ignores and thereby prevents the power usage, a PAC update to state this would be necessary.

Some of the deputies have said that the glossary should not be used. Others have said that it was fine as long as you remember that it is a summary of terms, and that the actual rules text trumps them if there's a conflict.

Agreed, ham.

I've always looked at Clix as a more "casual" game, but its becoming competitive and if its going to do that then something has to be done about needing so many different references to find rules and rulings.

The attacker would not be able to attack her. While her shape change would be ignored, the roll is still made and the function "When she does and the result is 6, opposing characters can't attack her this turn." is an independent effect. That effect is a part of her SHAPE SHIFTER power and while the shape change roll activates that part, the second sentence isn't Shape Change.

SHAPE SHIFTER: Mystique can use Shape Change. When she does and the result is 6, opposing characters can't attack her this turn.

As long as she gets to roll, that second part has a chance to activate.

The Psychic Blast/Impervious comparison doesn't work. The wording is incompatible.

"Cannot be reduced" doesn't negate "When this character is damaged roll a 1d6". So the roll is made, but most of the time it's pointless because the damage can't be reduced to 0 or by 2.

In this instant, Mystique is treated like she doesn't have Shape Change. She wouldn't get it against Pulse Wave or WoS Bullseye either.

If you'll kindly pardon my abandon of HeroClix specific jargon, I'd like to weigh in.

The way I read shapeshifter is as 2 distinct statements with The effect of the second statement being dependent on the successful resolution of the effect stated in the first statement.

Shape change only triggers when the character using it is targeted with an attack. If a character using battle fury can't target a character with an attack, as the second sentence of shape shifter States, then battle fury and shape change are irrelevant.

However, shape change must first be used.

I disagree because the second part of Shape Shifter is dependent on the SC result. The character Battle Fury ignores that result no matter what to my reading.

It doesn't matter if the character with Battle Fury ignores the result of the Shape Change roll. It is Mystique who is using the result for the second part of her Shape Shifter special power.

The activation of the effect in the second sentence depends on the successful resolution of shape change, but the effect as stated in the second sentence is separate and distinct from shape change. Once a 6 is rolled for shape change, shape change and battle fury no longer matter for mystique for that turn.