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What about playing people with the Green Power Battery full green? Is it the player's responsibility to remember to make sure his opponent's pieces are only taking one free action? Or is it both player's responsibility?
If you move a piece and realize you want him one square back, no problem, if you go to running shot, then realize the defense of the target is too high and want to move your PC'er before attacking, go ahead, i don't mind if you forget leadership and want to roll it after an action, but if you take a click of poison from me and then realize you had toughness from a resource - too bad you already clicked your dial..
If you and your opponent both agree to these rules then that is fine.
But if your playing in a tournament do you expect each one of your opponents to not play by the HC rules?
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I'm not a fan of the "don't be a dink" rule as an actual rule. It is far too flexible, and there are plenty of ways to abuse it.
How do you abuse it? If you know your opponent has shape change, point it out. Play fair. Dont be a dink... It is these types of players that "forget" to take mystics clicks unless specifically told to.
Play the game within the rules and give your opponent the option. Or simply make all "defensive" powers non-optional if attacked by an opponent (so they are not required during support, etc).
"And I shall make little coins with my head on them and place them in the thongs of your strippers."
How do you abuse it? If you know your opponent has shape change, point it out. Play fair. Dont be a dink... It is these types of players that "forget" to take mystics clicks unless specifically told to.
There are any number of ways to abuse it.
Let's look at shape change for a start.
Now, imagine I have a shape changer in play with DBAD in effect to guarantee that I can still get my SC roll if I "forget" it.
I'm playing a "Tea Titans" themed team of:
Chamomileon
Earl Grey
The Orange Pekoe
Oo Long
I see that you have two possible targets on my team...Chamomileon and The Orange Pekoe.
You declare an attack on Chamomileon.
If I declare my Shape Change I might make it in which case you'll definitely be targeting Pekoe.
If I "forget" my shape change, then I get to see whether or not you succeed before I "notice" it. If you fail to hit, then I just clam up and say nothing, but if you succeed then I pick up my figure and "Oh, I had Shape Change, let me roll that."
It's just another level of manipulation. It is one that I have no doubt people already try to employ, but with DBAD in the mix I know I can get away with it.
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Play the game within the rules and give your opponent the option. Or simply make all "defensive" powers non-optional if attacked by an opponent (so they are not required during support, etc).
1) Support is not an attack.
2) There are definitely times when I don't want to use Shape Change. When you declared that attack against the Chamomileon I was relieved because I didn't want you targeting Pekoe for reasons.
There are any number of ways to abuse it.
Let's look at shape change for a start.
Now, imagine I have a shape changer in play with DBAD in effect to guarantee that I can still get my SC roll if I "forget" it.
I'm playing a "Tea Titans" themed team of:
Chamomileon
Earl Grey
The Orange Pekoe
Oo Long
I see that you have two possible targets on my team...Chamomileon and The Orange Pekoe.
You declare an attack on Chamomileon.
If I declare my Shape Change I might make it in which case you'll definitely be targeting Pekoe.
If I "forget" my shape change, then I get to see whether or not you succeed before I "notice" it. If you fail to hit, then I just clam up and say nothing, but if you succeed then I pick up my figure and "Oh, I had Shape Change, let me roll that."
It's just another level of manipulation. It is one that I have no doubt people already try to employ, but with DBAD in the mix I know I can get away with it.
1) Support is not an attack.
2) There are definitely times when I don't want to use Shape Change. When you declared that attack against the Chamomileon I was relieved because I didn't want you targeting Pekoe for reasons.
We call this cheater's PC.
Quote : Originally Posted by Harpua
red king is spot on with this statement.
Quote : Originally Posted by dairoka
listen to Red King.
Quote : Originally Posted by YouWaShock
At the risk of going OT, I need to point out that it appears red king is talking to himself.
My standard is I will remind you of powers that are optional to use twice (optional meaning Outwit, Perplex, Leadership, Poison and that ilk); after that you are on your own (hey, I forget to use my own from time to time)
I will try and check for powers for you - sometimes I cannot see your character and if I say "I am attacking [character on the other side of the table from me]" and kind of stare at you for a few seconds in silence it means I am placing some onus on you to PLAY THE GAME and tell me if you have Shape Change!
If I don't know a character's dial I am not cheating if you have a SP that grants you Shape Change and you choose not to roll. There is an expectation that since you are playing them you at least read their cards! I try my best to help out new players but I end up forgetting my own stuff on occasion because i have to keep telling a younger opponent to use certain powers!
There are any number of ways to abuse it.
Let's look at shape change for a start.
Now, imagine I have a shape changer in play with DBAD in effect to guarantee that I can still get my SC roll if I "forget" it.
I'm playing a "Tea Titans" themed team of:
Chamomileon
Earl Grey
The Orange Pekoe
Oo Long
I see that you have two possible targets on my team...Chamomileon and The Orange Pekoe.
You declare an attack on Chamomileon.
If I declare my Shape Change I might make it in which case you'll definitely be targeting Pekoe.
If I "forget" my shape change, then I get to see whether or not you succeed before I "notice" it. If you fail to hit, then I just clam up and say nothing, but if you succeed then I pick up my figure and "Oh, I had Shape Change, let me roll that."
It's just another level of manipulation. It is one that I have no doubt people already try to employ, but with DBAD in the mix I know I can get away with it.
1) Support is not an attack.
2) There are definitely times when I don't want to use Shape Change. When you declared that attack against the Chamomileon I was relieved because I didn't want you targeting Pekoe for reasons.
This same attitude can exist with "forgetting mystics".
But the point - dont cheat/be a dink should be the norm.
Or make it simple the other way. Everything is on "you" as the defender. If you dont declare SS or reduce by 2 or make the other guy take mystics, its your fault. You must actively say something....
seems like a bad way and opens up more abuse. And if you "conveniently forget" shape change more than once,I'm going to start watching you closer for such "manipulation/cheating", or call a judge and say why I think you are gaming the system.
Last edited by squirecam; 08/28/2014 at 15:06..
"And I shall make little coins with my head on them and place them in the thongs of your strippers."
This same attitude can exist with "forgetting mystics".
But the point - dont cheat/be a dink should be the norm.
Or make it simple the other way. Everything is on "you" as the defender. If you dont declare SS or reduce by 2, its your fault. You must actively say something....
seems like a bad way and opens up more abuse. And if you "conveniently forget" shape change more than once,I'm going to start watching you closer for such "manipulation/cheating", or call a judge and say why I think you are gaming the system.
It may be gaming the system, but in an environment where DBAD is the law of the land it is tough to argue that you're operating outside of the system.
That is my point.
When you go by the written law, you can dole out some wiggle room as needed on a case by case basis. If your starting point is to say that you're basically opening up the rules to accommodate the sloppy players, then that opening is going to be given to everyone, and the Spikes of the group are going to use that as just another tool.
So If you and I are paired up in a tourny and I say I'd rather play by the rules of the game (Not your rules) what happens?
do I have to forfeit to you ?
Don't get me wrong as a player I see where you are coming from, But as a judge I see this as very sloppy play.
As a player, If I'm playing against a noob, I will help them by saying "before you claim that Running Shot, do you want to use your outwit?" but then I'll also explain that once you claim Running shot that action needs to be completed before you can give another action...
If your interested in having your maps Laminated, send me a PM
What about playing people with the Green Power Battery full green? Is it the player's responsibility to remember to make sure his opponent's pieces are only taking one free action? Or is it both player's responsibility?
Just like keeping track of non-free actions, both players should pay attention to it. I've had more than a few games (most of the WoL) where both players completely forgot about the 1 free action per figure per turn... with Arisia as my first thought of Sidestep and OW, plus all the new figures you're trying to remember, it's easy to forget the Battery's ES trait/ :-s
Heck, I've had games where I had an all-green Lantern and I let my opponent make 2-3 free actions with the same figure and didn't realize until half way through the game that they couldn't.
-Heroclix is not a game of logic, it's a game of strategy .... after all, when's the last time that you saw a giant (using a stealth ability) that was hiding behind a swingset... and nobody could SEE him????
Mystics is a funny one to me.
most players think it is the responsibility of the controlling player to declare and deal mystics damage. but that is nowhere in the rules. as a matter of fact it is the opposite.
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MYSTICS When a character using the Mystics team ability takes damage
from an attack, the attacker is dealt 1 unavoidable damage. This damage is not
an attack.
where does it say the controlling player has to declare mystics? Nowhere. It just happens. If I attack and damage a fig with mystics I have triggered the effect. I have to take the damage. My opponent does not have to say or do anything. I targeted the fig w/mystics, I dealt it damage, I triggered the effect, I have to take the click.
If I know I triggered an effect and choose not to abide by the rules of that effect then I am cheating.
If your interested in having your maps Laminated, send me a PM
How hard is to call your actions and remind your opponent?
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example: I'm giving Cyclopes a power action to use RS, (moves fig), to target your Mystique with Penn Blast. Do you want to roll shape change? (you roll a 5) Ok I'll target Colossus instead. YES! a crit hit, take 5. Don't for get your Inconceivable.
If your interested in having your maps Laminated, send me a PM
How hard is to call your actions and remind your opponent?
Quote
example: I'm giving Cyclopes a power action to use RS, (moves fig), to target your Mystique with Penn Blast. Do you want to roll shape change? (you roll a 5) Ok I'll target Colossus instead. YES! a crit hit, take 5. Don't for get your Inconceivable.
You try to make it sound easy, and I agree it is the best method to limit many hardships, but you're over simplifying how it should be done, like the "moves fig" part really should be broken down to counting out each square of the path as there are many things that can happen based on the chosen path.