Retiring Leap/Climb entirely might be a good idea. A power that lets you move to some degree during your opponent's turn could be viable.

It would be better if more character's had it as a trait. Whenever characters have it as a speed power it's just annoying and you wish you had charge.

So you voted "No", but really meant "Yes"?

If L/C does what IM does, that is a change to L/C, right?

I voted yes. I was considering voting no, until I read your post. You convinced me - it should be changed.

It's really a fun, unique power right now!
.. Improved Movement
.. +2 to your Breakaway roll
.. Ability to attack up or down a level

L/C really captures the comic book power that some characters have: Spider-man, Batman, Catwoman, Black Panther, any Gorilla, and the really "bouncy" martial artists.

Yes, you can add up a bunch of IMs & SPs, but why?
I'd rather see a Blue Beetle with L/C than a load of SPs giving him the same powers!
This is already a perfect representation of these characters' powers.

It's not a very "meta" power, but not every power is.
It's a movement power, not an attack power--some of the movement powers allow attacks/are attacks, but those are special.
It's very useful, but situational. If you have a character with L/C, try to get a map with elevated. (like if you have a character with , you try to get a map with water!)

Respectfully, I completely disagree about Spider-Man and Batman at least. They usually jumps right into combat with a punch or kick. The only part of L/C that represents this style of fighting at ALL is attack an elevated opponent in the next square. And it's kind of weird that they can only fight appropriately from the base of a building at someone on top of the building, doesn't it? In most cases, L/C is a very static power. The "Leaper" moves up, waits a minute, then throws a punch. That's a pretty slow martial artist.

IM combined with another power (like Charge, or even HSS in Spidey's case) represents the way Spider-Man and Batman move and fight. L/C doesn't.

I don't think it's as accurate as it could be for those characters. One thing almost all leap climb characters share that isn't portrayed by the power is moving around seems to require no energy for them. (This kind of goes along with part of parkour philosophy, it's not just about getting from point a to b as fast as possible but also expending as little energy as possible to do it so you can go for longer.)

The way I suggest leap/climb embrace the way these characters move is as follows

Leap/Climb
Improved movement hindering, elevated, outdoor blocking, and move through squares adjacent and occupied by characters. MOVE: when actions resolve do not give this character an action token.

I think this power would really encompass how these characters would interact with their environment and get rid of the silly spider-man has to rest after he gets to a roof top or he'll hurt himself.

I'm ambiguous. The boost to breakaway without automatically doing so anymore as "Phasing -" that has the added quirk of allowing close combat across elevation is interesting...but like other quirky elements of the game is sort of grandfathered in and has until now escaped notice. I can still count on two hands the number of games where cross-elevation close combat has occurred, and only a few more where the option shaped the fight but went unused. It's sort of like optional knockback from Combat Reflexes...I still miss it, but it was so rarely used...*shrug*

I wouldn't say it **needs** to be changed, but I can definitely understand that a change may be coming.

L/C's basically been redundant since IM was introduced. There are presently 138 characters (without accounting for different point costs) who can use L/C at some point. By comparison, 886 have Side Step. 700 have charge. 219 have Plasticity. 109 have Force Blast (which was probably the most derided power when I started playing). I think the reason's pretty clear: IM allows the designers to be more creative (IM:H but but E) and IM works with other powers, unlike LC. Not all powers are going to be equal, but what mackes LC unique really isn't worthwhile in the modern game. It needs to change the way other once "bad" powers like FB and Battle Fury did to stay relevant.

I voted yes. It seems extremely redundant because of Phasing/Teleport and Improved Movement. A solution I've had come to mind was place the character into a square adjacent to a target of a close attack either before or after the attack, aka Vault+ (already mentioned in this thread). Another was just make it the Street Fighter Team Ability, a Power Action to Move 3 and make a close attack (so it can just be redundant with Sidestep and Charge instead).

In Modern, that's certainly correct, but these things always fluctuate wildly depending on what's 'in' when things rotate. In Golden Age, there's something around 1073 characters with Leap/Climb, and just over 1200 that have Sidestep, which is pretty good if you ask me. Sidestep is a far more recent power, but it's also considered one of the best powers in the game. Charge is somewhere around 2700, which makes sense.

Again, Leap/Climb can be rendered redundant by Improved Movement, but Charge can also be rendered redundant by Hypersonic Speed, and Phasing/Teleport can also be rendered redundant by Improved Movement. There is a use to these powers, they help fight costs down and allow you to limit when and where characters can actually ignore terrain. The 75 point World's Finest Nightwing would have been way more expensive if he had IM the whole dial rather than two clicks of Leap/Climb. This is a good thing, as having a cheaper, more team-friendly piece is good. Not every power needs to be replaced by something more useful, because the game has a very clear power to cost economy.

It's not a slippery slope argument to say if we start just outright chopping powers, or always changing them to be better and better, the game is going to get wacky, and quick. Power Creep should be fought against, not encouraged. Some characters get Improved Movement in exchange for being more expensive, and other characters get Leap/Climb or Phasing/Teleport in exchange for being cheaper. That's all there is to it.

I said NO, but I think what needs to change is dial design overall.

I think of recent figures that are 50-75pts and seemingly sacrifice nothing for consistently high values and good powers. In that version of the game, there is no need for lesser powers that can be dispersed in a dial to keep its cost down. However, I would like to live in the world where leap/climb feels significant rather than the one where it needs to be buffed.

The fact that Sidestep has passed LC in terms of total number of characters despite starting even later than the introduction of IM is crazy and show just how much the designers have moved away from LC.

Two things:
Charge and HS are VERY different. HS is usually better, yes, but currently and in the past, Charge is better than HS in some situations.

Secondly, it's dangerous to assume a point formula exists. IM was given out like candy for the first few years of its existence and seemed to have little bearing on a figure's point cost. I actually think it's reasonable to assume IM:H+E would be cheaper than LC because it does less.

My favorite suggestion so far that I think would give Leap/Climb a nice bump without significantly changing how it functions or its "flavor" is simply adding:

Improved Targeting: Elevated and (maybe) Outdoor blocking.

Characters without range won't get a bump from it (except for perplex/outwit/prob if they have that). It still fits nimble characters who can position themselves and/or post up for a shot. And it doesn't suddenly turn Leap/Climb into a move and attack power. It simply gives characters with Leap/Climb greater attack options.

And the only thing it's overlapping with at that point is IT.

Leap climb allows you to attack from one elevation to another. Improved Movement should go.

So the solution to it being redundant is giving it more things a character can already get without taking up a power slot?
And flavor wise this is baffling to me anyway... unless they gave the same power to flight, but that would have be horrific. It won't have any effect on the majority of LC pieces (didn't check this claim), and even if it did, it still wouldn't be unique.