David,

I totally agree with you. I'll keep on gaming no matter what. MW is a great game, dispite it's kinks. Thanks for your thoughts...

Most of the uber competative types around here don't need prize support to give you a good ### whuppin'. Most of the time they give the prize away at the end of the tournament. The only thing that matters is WINNING.

That's human nature. And, as long as WK promotes this kind of thing by allowing all-star armies and creating broken pieces, there is nothing we can do it. These types are just following the rules and doing the best they can.

@ X-Berg,

My situation is alot like yours i own all the prime arty's, all the cheese combos and all the "first tier" pieces, i play none of them, the onlyone i don't have is arnis.

I will admit i have strayed to the path of the darkside over some le's i wanted for my HL set, but never on a regular basis,

I also bring two huge bags of stuff so that i can lend people figs etc, and i never win fellowship almost by choice (i win alot even with the HL) and when i have won fellow ship (its been a LONG time) i have given it away to a kid, or someone whose collection is small (unless its SC then my brother gets it)

Then i say remove the incentive for winning.

Wizkids makes more then enough money to provide prize support for more then 1st place and fellowship. Provide prizes for all players. Why not? It would remove the whole ebay fanatical sales of LE's because it would be a monster saturation. That and i'm pretty sure that if wizkids were to remove prize support, that they'd lose alot of gamers.

So why not just provide prizes for all players who attended the event. So say you had 4 players. Each one gets a prize. Say you had 18 players, each one gets a prize.

Obviously if you have 18 players, you're going to have a bunch of money generated from them.... why make them fight among themselves over 1 LE? Would it not be more sound to have them come out on a regular basis, have fun, and then recieve a prize?

Etc.

Prize support ideas is more what i'm trying to get at... the removal of the NEED TO WIN mentality, and the replacement with " tabletop gamers cause we got nothin else to do on a thursday night " mentality.

I agree with you x_berg.

I for one do play for fun. The only times I really want to win are of course when some DF LE's are available and that's about it. I will play on occasion to win some trade bait though but if I don't, I don't mind really. I prefer to see the young kids win stuff if possible and I always try to give my fellowship votes to them.

My sense of accomplishment comes by beating everyone that has beaten me before at least once, then I'm content.
I like to keep playing the really good players who first taught me the game until I beat them. So far, I have.

Now I just concentrate on fleshing out my DF army that I have painstakingly collected.
I have most of the DF uniques and LE's but I don't play them all, some are just collectable for me. I will play the LE's along with alot of non's from the set in my army builds because I like stuff like Danni Haag etc.

I also keep my karma up by trading in favor of the other guy or just trade them stuff I know they collect that I don't want.
I have given away tons of figs in trade for just one or two figs that I need here on the Realms trading forums.
So far it works for me.
The guys at my venue know I play DF and they will hold figs for me so I can trade for them.
I just got Janina Lukic last week that way from my friend who plays ROTS. I traded him the ROTS LE Griffon for it.

One time I traded both the SC and SW LE Infantry packs for a Jing Smith unique with this one kid because he was really excited about getting them and his mom drove him like 40 miles so he could play that night. I haven't even played Jing yet.

There are alot of great guys at my venue. They play to win of course but for the most part, we all have fun. The tempers have gotten the best of a couple before, but they snap out of it and we all welcome them back to play after the dust settles.

I tend to let alot of jabs at me here on the forums roll off my back.
It's just wiser to pick your battles.

Some guys though act like a bunch of women.
Too emotional, too vindictive, and for the most part, could probably use a good beotch slap to snap them out of it, but it probably wouldn't.
Yeah, the bickering does get old, doesn't it?

Err...well...I wouldn't compare them to women that way, greyholme, but the point is taken, I guess.

X_Berg, I understand that you have good intentions, but removing prize support does have pretty far-reaching consequences. Yes, it does remove SOME over-competitive players from the running - they will go do something else. Others will be content to smash everyone, and may grow even more bitterly competitive over it. I've seen it happen, sadly.

"Don't complain you got wiped out, it doesn't even matter."

Bad attitudes, man.

And the other thing is all the kids and fun players who don't have a lot of money but can actually do some trading when they manage to win one LE from time to time. Heck, if they lose enough, they get one too.

Lastly, removing prize support would deprive of precious painting and modding material. And I can't bear that. ;)

Oh trust me. I'm not for removing prize support at all. The ramifications of that would be fatal to the Wizkids venture.

I'm saying, they have enough to support more.

...Wow. Are you high?

The costs inherent with installing such a short-sighted, naive plan would drive WK into bankruptcy. Between manufacturing and shipping costs alone, WizKids' bottom line would skyrocket in order to ship an infinite number of pieces to every venue. How can you tell how many people are going to show up for an event? What if you receive 18 pieces and 4 people show up? Is the BM going to keep all the extra stuff? Or will WK pay more money to have it shipped BACK to them so they can keep it in the warehouse? Or worse, will WK make the BM pay the money to send them back? Wow. That's all I can say to that. Wow.

If you don't like the competitive environment, just stick to playing pickup games with your buddies. Why not? I do it all the time. And I have a blast doing it. Tournaments aren't the only place to play. Prize support isn't the problem with the game. Prize support is one of the game's true boons.

In fact (cue the rant), I don't feel this game HAS that many problems. I think this game has a problem with players' egos. Poeple who think they're much better players than they are complaining when they get beaten by players who are actually better than they are. Players who complain about the competitive environment, and yet do nothing to address their deficiencies in that arena.

Guh. Will the whining never end?

Excellent definition, if I may say so. As a rule, people are free to express their opinions as long as they allow others to question them and are ready to back them.
And as long as everyone remains soft spoken and polite. Disagreeing is the general rule among any given community. What makes a community successful is the respect members give to each other IMHO.

I'm not high. Glad to see you start the post with an insult.
Its obviously a short sighted plan, which is why i've asked for discussion on what to do to remove the holier then thou attitude which causes the abuse of such uber figs. I'm sorry that the idea didn't measure up to your standards.

You tell how many people show up, by counting... then sending to WK how many showed up, then they send the figs. Pretty simplistic i think. But shortsighted.


I do enjoy the competative environment. I enjoy it quite a bit actually, as i'm sure that many others do as well. What we don't enjoy is a competative environment with a bunch of arsehats making the competative environment poisoned with craptastic armies, lame attitudes, and smug antics. Nobody enjoys that.

The prize support is a BOON. I totally agree. In fact, we agree on many points, and i really find your need to insult me right off the bat as odd... almost like you needed to do it somehow...

I also never said the game has many problems either. In fact at the very end, we end up being on the same page... the reduction of ones ego while playing the game.

Why the hostilities?

TrevorElGato,

One could respond by saying that the problem with players' egos is that some of them insist on claiming they know what other players do, think, or how they act.

Other problems with the game could include lack of questioning by shortsighted fans who like dominating the meta-game by purchasing über-units with each new set.

Or even accusations of whining when some players try to politely set forth solutions they believe could fix the problem.

A simple "I disagree" would have sufficed from you.

Also.

I'm blessed with 3 venues in my city which contain competative players, without the egos. Cept for like 1 or 2. But they're not out often enough to really cause anyone here problems. I have no real reason to "whine". But i "whine" for the new people, the people that have to put up with this week in, and week out, etc. In fact, if and when someone ends up with a double of said LE, they usually hand it off to someone who wants / needs it.

I'd just like to see everyone enjoy the game as much as i do, both in the ring, and as a pickup game.

One of the reasons you are seeing so uch much whining going on is the lastest fix for artillery. Most folks were very happy with it. We got some much needed balance in the game.

Along comes CA with mortars and the A4s and all the balance is out the window. Yeah, we got exactly 3 weeks of good play out of our latest rule changes.

Players can see the future now. Sky rocketing ebay prices mean one thing. You'll be facing more A4s than you can count in another couple days. And the guys that have them are the ones that will spend whatever it takes to compete. The prizes are irrelevent for most of these guys.

You can sense this rising frustration level from the game's core players. Been there, done that. We can't seem to get out of the loop of broken units followed by rule changes.

with wizkids having rocky financial status, and with venus(at least mine) having a decrease in members I think alot of whiners are afraid of mw going the way of the dinosaur. I've spent alot of money on alot of games which have died out, and if the same is to happen to MW I'd rather get tired of it first. I'd much much much rather have MW have the lifespan of D&D, warhammer or magic then the lifespan of the battletech ccg.

Hey, I got into this game because it was fun, fast and had (little) giant robots. I didn't care if I won or not because for $5, I was guarenteed an LE just for showing up. (Remember the prize redemption program?)
Net result: I brought all my friends to play (mostly old CBT players like myself), had a great (relaxing) time, and I even got voted a bunch of fellowship prizes. And, Hey, quess what? I won once in a while too! Bonus!
Then they canceled the redemption program, people at both venues I played at got super-duper-uber-competative, my friends quit playing (low jerk tolerance), and because I don't spend $300+ a month, I don't win anymore. Hell, last week, a guy cheated me (used IT to reroll a critcal sucess on a capture) who didn't even have a chance to win. He needed to win at all costs. I didn't even have the heart to complain to the BM.
Am I less committed than Mr. Suitcase? Yes. Should he be rewarded for trophy tourism? By definition he is. Should I be punished because I only play once or twice a month and refuse to play rainbow min/max rain of pog cheese? I don't think I should, but venue play is turning into a classic case of both social Darwinism and (for me at least,) diminishing returns. Wanna come over to my house and play with (little) giant robots?