Ultimates, I think, is the Crisis of Marvel. With all this history it does get a little mind boggling. So they start off at square one. I mean, DC had Crisis on Infinite Earths, I don't even know how to explain that. JSA on one earth, JLA on another. They just streamlined it with Crisis. Now Ultimates does the same thing. Marvel takes its core titles and starts writing better stories. Admit, the golden age stories are hokey, except for a few of them.

I think the inquisition might be after you for saying that....

As for me, i think the Ultimate universe is reallz quite good so it is. Bought mzself all the Ult Xmen tpbs and am reallz looking forward to Ultimate FF!

I always wanted to read comics for FF, X-men, Advengers and Sipder-Man.

But i am 17 and dont have much money...so? I bought all the trades for Ultimate X-men, 6 of them at about 15 a pop isn't cheap.

I Got the Ultimates TPB and the other 6 issues that are out. Also i got the first Spiderman TPB and didn't like it so... But i like it cause i have my own continuty*. I have my own history...not this other history thats 40 or more years old

I like Ultimates and hope DC does the same with its characters...That will get me to buy DC

.....and i know that by posting this i can get a lot of flames.....so please think before you write......

I am really, REALLY put off by Captain America's "Good old" values and ideals....
i know that things were more civil 50 years ago but there is also a flipside to that medal....racism, sexism etc.

Cap really embodies the old ideas with patriotism in the lead.
Sorry but i almost had to gag in the latest Ultimates when he is asked to surrender and he replies 'what do you think the A on my forehead stands for...France?".....COME ON!

Was that really necessary?

Yes yes it was and I liked it and its so ture. I really like the new Caps hes so kickass.

The question I ask you then is this: Do they refer BACK to all those 30 years in his movies? (I don't know, I'm not a JB fan) If they don't, then that's why we still go. Each time is something new, and I don't have to watch 20 movies before I go see Die Another Day or whatever.

If they do refer back all the time....well I retract then.

As for the topic, I love the Ultimates. Waiting for my Ultimate X-Men HC figs!

I prefer classic.

Ultimate was just a "hit" in a lonnnnnnng line of marvels misses.

When it fails in a few years, marvel true to form will abandon it and move on to "creating" the next "it" thing.

But that is my opinion of marvel not the ultimate line.

I would like the ultimates a lot better if they didn't just let hitch be as lazy as he wants to be to take his time on the book, there are alot of better artists out there who could do the book with as much "ooomph" and still have it in the same sales numbers and it would be on time.

Ultimate spiderman has yet to disappoint-probably marvels most well written book consistently.

But all in all not looking forward to anymore ultimate titles.

With Wasp being asian, and Capt. being from WW2 wouldn't he be more put off by her?....I even hear in the next series that they will be dating. Just wondering. I have to agree with the above post the whole france thing- gimme a break! to on the nose with Frances opposition to the iraq war.

I still prefer the original Capt.

And classic Capt would beat the ultimate Capt. liked he owned him.

I don't think the France insult was because of them not supporting the war, but because France's military record is ####. Cap came from World War II, and during that war France surrendered. It was the US that saved France from speaking German. And Cap is the US.

I thinkis probably (intrigued* by the fact that Wasp is Asian.

The france insult is not with regards to opposing Iraq. It deals with a host of other issues. Having played Day of Defeat since it's first beta, we saw those disscussions from day one.

While most don't like to admit it, and certainly not France (I know just from dealing with French while working in the oil field). We pulled the world out of the morass that was WW1 and saved the day. During the second World War, the French just keeled over and rolled the carpet out for the Germans. While their were many French who resisited and fought, the country as a whole just rolled over. It the US hadn't gotten involved (and we were involved long before we were fighting), Britain would have fallen, and that would have ended western Europes ability to hold out. Personally I thought it was classic when Cap said that.

Do I like Ultimate's Cap better, no. Was it still hillarious, yes.

I prefer mainstream Cap, and his whole outlook and attitude. I like his mom and apple pie values. Not to mention I think he'd kick the snot out of Ultimate Cap. Still, Ultimate Cap is a nifty Char. He's a little bit grittier version of Steve Rogers. It almost makes me think of most of John Waynes roles vs Rooster Cogburn (in True Grit). I love John Wayne as an actor, his Cogburn was just a bit grittier then the usual version.

cue music '' 's time to go bustin' in like 'ol John Wayne...."

lets not hope that they use the origins for movie characters by the ultimates.....oops too bad they already did that for Spiderman and X-Men...####

You know, its almost funny now...

Nearly twenty years ago, Alan Moore's Watchmen brought the concept of "troubled" heroes to the mainstream comic crowd...and hatched a great deal of problems in the process.
His brilliant work has been bastardized into today's "Authority", "Punisher", and now, ironically, the "Ultimates".

Folks, Ultimates was cliche the day it was published.
I, for one, am sick of the heroes with problems that seem to spawn incessantly from the big 2. Is it necessary? Are the Ultimates necessary? Check out the genius work being done in the writing of the current Avengers to see how a writer can take existing characters and refresh them for the 2000's.

The Ultimate line is a Marvel cop-out.
The whole point of the classic Captain America was a higher moral code that even the government couldn't emulate. Something that transcended politics and government, and encapsulated the very essence of America as a people, not a country. So what does the Ultimate line do? Turn Cap into a lapdog for the Army. What a crock and what an insult to the very spirit of Captain America. It saddens me to see what impressionable children now have to look up to in their "heroes"...since when did Cap ever need a GUN????

Sorry, a little rant there, but you understand, I hope.
I can only hope that the classic Marvel can gain better writers who can tackle the original concepts of their heroes without resorting to this sort of sick, debased retooling. Ultimates is no fun, and on top of that, is already outdated.

I really like the Ultimates Caps costum more but I like that the old Cap had high morals more.

Classic Cap made a move to Marvel Knights so Cap can be more of the soldier he should be. Ultimately he might just end up like ultimate Cap. Today's problem is much more complicated, the black and white are now shades of gray. Maybe Ultimate Cap will break away from the army, he has already shown his disappointment when he found out some of the Six are results of the Super Soldier project. Just as Classic Cap found out the Army froze him. Classic Cap is in for a depressing ride, and status quo will just be a little bit more different.