A rose by any other name...

You could have easily posted this idea in your old thread. I don't care what you do I am just telling you how I feel.


You have a different exp. with WOWTCG than I do. I don't know anyone who does not play WOW, hence everyone I know who plays the TCG plays WOW so there is noone I know who plays the WOW TCG that does not play WOW. Personally I think the absolute 'hotness' of the IP WOW absolutely broke down the wall for MMO's. While comics have history, story and all that crap, has a single comic sold close to 800,000 copies each month? That's the estimated # of monthly WOW subscribers.

Also why not ask what if VS had the Magic engine. We had a 1000 plus players for a magic pre-release here a few sets back, that should be what we are aiming for. Since number of people showing up ='s success in your argument, Magic dominate's WOW, even Yugi does. Are you telling me Yugi was a better game then VS? Why didn't we use that engine? It's also owned by UDE and sells TONS!!!!

They obviously should have used the Yugioh engine.

So far you are the only person I have seen say Yes, I didn't look the thread over too hard. Set it up as a poll so those who don't feel like posting can get their vote in. I would guess though it's about the same amount of people who wanted a massive overhaul to the VS engine and posted in that thread.

You are the only person to say that so far, but if you are sure why ask the question? I mean you know the answer.
Since it is the best one there is why would you accept an lesser product? I would play with the cards I had until I couldn't find anymore games. Then I would pack it up and move on. Just like I did with 1st edition Mage Knight.

If Vs. went to a WoW-like engine and created cards in the vein that Erik suggests I do not think the flavor would be even across the board. For instance using Eriks example of Batman I will take it to the next step and describe the opponent of Batman - The Joker.

In the Joker deck he would have equipment and locations appropriate to his style (acid flower, abandoned joke factory, etc.). His allies, now this is where it gets bad. No one in their right (or left) mind would willingly work with the Joker (Scarecrow not withstanding). So his allies in the deck would be Harley Quinn, maybe Scarecrow, and a bunch of goons. This does not make for an exciting deck, and would get it's ### handed to it by Ericks allied laden Batman deck.

The WoW engine in and of itself is not bad, but not a good fit for Vs.

Errr, what about the Las Vegas WoW regional that had what, 8 players? That's horrible for a brand new "hot" game.

Yes.

I think your misplacing WoW's successes. It has wayyyyy more to do with the online game and promos than the engine. The engine lacks a lot and doesn't really excel at anything.

Overpower? I do not think the masses would stick to playing a not very fun game. Not that WoW is as bad as Overpower, but it just ain't got it for game play.

I'll be generous and say %10 might stick with it. I certainly wouldn't. A game absolutely can not stand on it's license alone.

Erick, I don't know if this is sudden WoW fan boy talk from you or that you're just displaying an immense devotion to the heros and villains of the comic universe by saying you'd still play it if VS started as WoW. But I'm guessing, just based off the enthusiasm and great support you've had for VS, that if Overpower were the only superhero TCG you'd be playing that too. Not that that's a bad thing, but you'd definitely be in a very small niche group.

I could see how it would work. Like a previous poster said there wouldnt be much point to doing it now, cause it would drive away many fans, and not bring in enough to replace them.

Thematically building a deck with Spider-man as your heroe and all the spider friends as his allies makes since to me. And for heroes that do not use many equipment or any at all it would be just like in Wow where there are decks that run nothing but allies

It would probably reflect how the comic industry is in real life, where as all the Spidey and Batman fans would be happy cause they would have a hero that they wanted to play, but the Thunderbolts fans of the world would be out of luck cause it would be a long time before they got a hero card.

A way to get around that would maybe make it so that any allie card can can be converted to a hero card. Instead of having a flip ability the other side of the card would be the hero stats of the card if you choose to make it your hero

I have never even picked up a WoW card, but my money is on the guy with the mohawk.

I do know one thing... the Pro Circuit would have looked really different. What happened to all the good players from Vs. when they tried to compete in WoW? Same thing that happened to them in Magic.

I don't quite know why, but I suspect it has something to do with a higher skill level in our game.

Giving someone 50 rep points never felt so sweet. Classic truth.

I gotta say it was a good day.

The World of Warcraft online game is at least equally (and even arguably less) popular than the Marvel and DC Comic licenses. The WoW TCG, however, is extremely simple to play, and very forgiving of mistakes.

Versus System, IMO, is the perfect game engine. It is the perfect mix of thematic and strategic elements that represent the comic book characters they are portraying. However, the general public does not acclimate well to the perfect game engine (i.e. the general public is 'stupid,' and gets frustrated from playing the perfect VS). I guarantee you that nearly 70% of the Versus crowd out there frequents VS Realms and vssystem.com, but only a small fraction of the WoW TCG population frequents the online WoW TCG websites. This can give you a general idea of how educated their playerbase is about the intricacies of their respective game.

IMO, like Tommy said, the WoW game engine would not translate well to VS because it was designed to portray the video game. I do agree, however, that a simpler design based around Comic book characters would have done much good for the game.

Oh really? - http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/w...ent.aspx?eid=8 (FYI, Vidi is also one of the highest ranked players in the world).

Yugioh proved that game engine does not make a game, accessability is probably way more important than a perfect engine. A ######## six year olds can learn to play that game, heh.

Cool as hell! Thanks, I had not been following it.

I still stand by my statement... since you and Vidi are not normal humans.

If the Vs. System Pro Circuit had been based on a simpler, more luck intensive game system then we would not have had three years of heaven on tour. As a whole, Vs. System pros are more intelligent and more socially skilled than the other games. If our game was easier, we wouldn't have had such a great time together at the PCs.

In my opinion.

personally i think you would be hard pressed to find real evidence of a better TCG engine then VS. Not to say that VS doesn't have play issues because of some the "marketing" choices that UDE has made. That is to say the constant influx of new teams, the relentless release schedule, and the lack of true legacy content are some. Interestingly enough with the release of "Core" sets it seems that they might be starting to address a lot of this. I for one would have played VS in the beginning whatever the engine.

Of couse its the engine that's kept me in the game these few years we've been operating. when I play WoW i worry about the longevity of the playability of that game. Also if you take a trip to the wasteland that is wowrealms.com its hard to consider this a popular TCG. The main UDE forums are active but its hard to find any real content in the posts. I mean at least in VS people have and have always been vocal about stratagey and tactics. In WoW its like stall till you smash face, or smash face right away. I don't think a game with so few strategic options can last to long.......of course Yugi could prove me wrong, but really Yugi is the Vidi of the TCG world.....it wins and no one really knows why or how....its just wins.

The biggest hurdle would be converting the 'class' system to a comic book context. While some powers are 'universal' in terms of super-strength and such ... it would be hard to really create 'classes' for the characters.

I guess you could go with something like from Mutants and Masterminds and define the archetypes, although there would be a lot.

You can have some 'superhero specific' cards which would be a bit of a departure from the original WoW concept. And, which would bring back the same 'problems' that the teams do at the moment ... you can't limit the number of characters too much ... so you need to restrict the number of 'character stamped' cards and instead try to shoe horn the heroes into classes.

In general, it's hard to really take an existing game engine and try to put a different property into it.

Raw Deal for example, is a great 'fit' in terms of game engine and property. The other Wrestling card game tried to go the "Magic" route in terms of building up resources and such. However, it doesn't make sense. In Raw Deal, the resources are threshold based, and the ammount of resources you have available is based on how much damage you've dealt so far. Thus it's building up momentum, and as the 'match' drags on, bigger and bigger moves come out.

So while an engine may be GREAT in representing two fantasy characters duking it out, it may not necessarily represent two super heroes fighting.

Mutants and Masterminds is a RPG gaming system that can be compared to D&D. However ... it has a vast assortment of 'powers' to represent the full spectrum of super powers which is admitedly much more varied than the classes of D&D ... not to mention many heroes 'mix and match' ... not falling into any particular 'class' of hero.

You could put Mr. Freeze and Firestorm into "energy control" but then you'd either have to make different energy control cards for each type of energy [magnetism, electricity, ice, fire, cosmic, etc ...] or you are giving Mr. Freeze the ability to shoot lightning and Magneto can make giant green boxing gloves, etc ...

If it started out like that, I wouldnt know the difference....since I do at this time, if it made a switch, I imagine I would too...

I love the game the way it is...if its to difficult for some, so be it...I enjoy formations and having to be ready on both offense and defense...

PS, WoW isnt played much in my area

Didn't this exist before as "OverPower"? We all know how well that game went over...

I see this statement made a lot and the biggest difference between this and OverPower was OP support and a real R&D department.

If OverPower had a PC... it might have done better... who knows.

Over 300 people show up at our SoCal YGO Regionals for zero cash.

So no matter how good the VS engine is... the fact remains... people need to play the game in order for it to get good OP support... like WoW does. And why do I chose WoW over YGO? Because YGO is too simple... but if that puts money in the retailers' pockets, heck go back to VS 1.0 (which happened to be how VS was originally... big numbers, simple attacks... very YGO like).

And pint... this is just my opinion... no need to stealth-flame... stu repped you for it but it doesn't bother me.

I'm a bit in confusion on what the point of this thread is, you state its a "what if" discussion.

there is no end to no start.

Simple answer in the minds of many, VS is for smart people with "patience"

Wow,magic, ygo...etc with simple engines of game play appeal because simplicity(sp?) appeals to a majority of human beings.

Had Vs started with a "mana" type of engine. And had 0 formation issues, then it would not be appealing in the Comic sense. (Formations is something so huge to the starting success of the game. ) Although I could see VS being played with the "mana engine" to try and prevent something stupid to occur in the game, such as one of many infinite combos.

yet its the fact that Vs Plot twist/location engine is so 'open' that makes the game appealing as well.