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I think what DaddyDoom is getting at is, if Nico chooses Support or Regeneration within the 4 squares of the White Lantern. Nico's Special Power "Staff of One" couldn't be countered. For the next turn the chance to choose another power using "Staff of One" avoiding an opponents outwit of "Staff of One" when choosing Support/Regeneration the turn before while within the 4 squares of the White Lantern.
Yup I see your point. I think the whole problem comes from the ambiguity of "can use". That can mean "can currently use" or "can use now or in the future". Maybe the White Lantern would have been better phrased if it said:
Characters within 4 squares of this object that can currently use Support or Regeneration can't have those powers, or special powers that allow their use, countered.
same thing with another issue that came up recently with Brainiac 5's outwitted PC and the condition with Theme PCs. Maybe it should say:
Must not be able to currently use Probability Control through another game effect.
Quote : Originally Posted by Core Rulebook
USE AND POSSESS
A character possesses a power or ability if that power is printed on their dial in the form of a white or colored square, or if an icon granting that ability is printed on their base. A character may also possess a power or ability if a special power or trait ability states that they “have” or “possess” that power or ability.
A character uses a power if a special power or an ability states that they “can use” or “uses” that power
They would have to currently be showing the that they are able to "use" the power at the time needed to check.
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
I think what DaddyDoom is getting at is, if Nico chooses Support or Regeneration within the 4 squares of the White Lantern. Nico's Special Power "Staff of One" couldn't be countered. For the next turn the chance to choose another power using "Staff of One" avoiding an opponents outwit of "Staff of One" when choosing Support/Regeneration the turn before while within the 4 squares of the White Lantern.
Except that is not how it works. The condition to use one of those powers has not been met... therefore, as far as checking for the White Lantern is concerned, she can't use them and you can Outwit away.
The White Lantern does not need to be changed to say Currently able to Use, because according to the Rulebook you need to be showing a power, special power, or ability that allows you to use in order to be able to use it.
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
The White Lantern does not need to be changed to say Currently able to Use, because according to the Rulebook you need to be showing a power, special power, or ability that allows you to use in order to be able to use it.
Yeah I guess it doesn't have to be changed as long as people understand that "can use" refers to "can currently use" and if "ability to use" is what's meant, then it will specifically say so.
They cannot Outwit Regeneration or Support if she picks those powers because she doesn't actually possess Regen or Support, but they could just simply Outwit 'Staff of One' (Assuming she's not within 4 of the White Lantern).
But she does possess a power that allows their use. It's the power as a whole that allows their use, not just when she's using it to use that power..
But, the power does allow the use of those powers right?
Only when you choose regeneration or support is she able to use those powers, not before or after.
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
But, the power does allow the use of those powers right?
The "does allow" only refers to what cannot be outwitted. If Nico did not pick any of those two powers, then she fails the "can use" part of it and therefore not subject to the benefits of the White Lantern.
This is one of those situations where those who can hear it a certain way can understand the ruling and the rest of us become frustrated b/c no matter how many times it is said in a different way, it still sounds the same. Adding "Currently Able to Use" does nothing to help those of us in my camp.
The bottom line is that it works that way b/c those are the rules. The power must be specifically named or actually be in use at the moment for a fig to be able to meet the "use" pre-req.
This is one of those situations where those who can hear it a certain way can understand the ruling and the rest of us become frustrated b/c no matter how many times it is said in a different way, it still sounds the same. Adding "Currently Able to Use" does nothing to help those of us in my camp.
The bottom line is that it works that way b/c those are the rules. The power must be specifically named or actually be in use at the moment for a fig to be able to meet the "use" pre-req.
SM Parasite - Power Drain
GSX Rogue - Power Absorbtion
DC75 Black Alice - Magical Thievery (if used against Mystic Keyword)
These three characters have a Special Power that allows them the possibility of using Support or Regeneration.
Would anyone argue that since there is the possibility that these figures may be able to use Support or Regeneration that they would be eligible to activate the White Lantern effect whenever their Special Power is showing?
Or is is safer to say that, unless any of those characters are currently using Support or Regenerate, that they can't active the effect?
Quote : Originally Posted by dairoka
I'm pretty sure Dragon has the Future keyword and Probability Control.
Quote : Originally Posted by Dragon
With the amount of times you are Ninja'd I swear you must have the Past Keyword
A character uses a power if a special power or an ability states that they “can use” or “uses” that power
I think the closest I can get on board with is the word "that" which suggests a power must actually be named. So if Nico's power said give her a free action and she can use, Stealth, Steal Energy, Regeneration, Outwit, Leap Climb, Energy Explosion, Toughness, Battle Fury, etc. she would be allowed to use the lantern. However, a pwer must be named first and than THAT power can be used.
Or a GD can step forward and pull a Magog and make it right.
SM Parasite - Power Drain
GSX Rogue - Power Absorbtion
DC75 Black Alice - Magical Thievery (if used against Mystic Keyword)
These three characters have a Special Power that allows them the possibility of using Support or Regeneration.
Would anyone argue that since there is the possibility that these figures may be able to use Support or Regeneration that they would be eligible to activate the White Lantern effect whenever their Special Power is showing?
Or is is safer to say that, unless any of those characters are currently using Support or Regenerate, that they can't active the effect?
That's the thing they don't have to be currently using the power. Which is quite impossible to be using a power and be having it countered at the same time.
They just have to "be able to use" which requires the Special Power or Trait to list it as a power. Nico's power does not list it until you declare that as the power she is choosing for the turn.
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.