Herocomplex, I cannot thank you enough for your response.

You are correct about F, it is an assumption. You are able to use an assumption in a deductive proof, so long as you prove that assumption in the proof, which I did not do. I believe I could do so, but am happy to stand refuted. What I'm mostly interested in is seeing the power clarified and I agree completely with your last statement.

Why on earth would a Mystic take a click of damage from the team ability when he makes a critical failure when performing an attack on an opposing figure. That is most idiotic thing I can think of right now. The Mystic is already being penalized by receiving a click of damage for the critical miss. Furthermore, a critical miss is an attack, but the result of the attack is a miss, not a hit on the target. The Mystics team ability is meant to encompass a retaliatory strike to an opposing figure who attacked the Mystic successfully. Having the Mystic take an additional click from a critical miss by the Mystic him/herself is not a function of the team ability. I am amazed that some people actually twist the wording of super powers and team abilities to this level. Oh well, if there are those of you who feel like a Mystic should take an extra click from the team ability because they critically missed their own attack roll, I will not stop you. Makes less work for me when I am trying to KO your figures.

happybjorn all I have to say is wow! I really have no idea how you could keep arguing about this when so many people have proved you wrong. It has been stated a few times that the damage from a critical miss is from the miss, not the attack. Now about your whole amulet idea. I really don't understand how you think that would convince anyone, now if there was a wizard or mage or whatever magical figure you used in your example, that made an amulet like that do you really think that they would be dumb enough to not make some sort of "failsafe" just in case they hurt themselves? You also said that the TA is the thing that is giving the damage and not the mystic, well it is a power that they have, so they are using it, therefore they are giving the damage.

Yes, I did notice it, and it is irrelevant. Flavor text has already been ruled to be completely ignored in terms of game play. So as it stands, my notion that a critical miss vs. Steal Energy would heal the figure is no more ridiculous than yours concerning Mystic Team ability.

Guys---when an armistice is called, that's usually when you step back from each others' throats.

I'm never after anyone's throat. I was merely showing him the error of trusting in the flavor text as game rulings. If I did it in a tactless way, then I apologize. In debates I often speak from the voice of logic and tend to overlook sugarcoating my statements. I had no intention of belittling him.

Not a matter of belittling, merely one of letting an issue rest when a peaceful end appears to have been reached.

But if you insist, I actually disagree with you. I am at the forefront of those warning of the dangers of relying entirely on flavor text, or allowing it to supercede the other rules. However, saying that it is utterly disregarded is incorrect. As an example, simply look at the bolded statement accompanying RCE.

Okay so what about the mystic on mystic thing? Doe's the damage travel back and fourth?

No. It is damage from a super power, not an attack. That one is answered in the DC FAQ.

Well, I was hoping to find a few more answers in here, but I guess a 2 page discussion on critical misses is better than nothing.

Anyway, I've still got a slew of questions and hoping to get some answers.

1) Since the PAC specifically says "All other special abilities act as normal." can you mastermind the retaliatory blast? Say Joker attacks Cerce, he hits and will take a click in return, can he MM that to someone?

2) Does Incapacitate that causes a push also cause retaliatory damage?

3) What is the precident and timing for declaring the team ability for a wildcard?

Say I want to target Livewire. I declare a ranged attack on Livewire. My opponent then declares that Livewire is a Batman ally and I can't target him. So instead I fly in a close combatant. Can he then declare the figure a Mystic? If so, can my ranger now target him again? I've always been confused on the timing and number of times you can switch back and forth a team ability.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks.

1) No. Mastermind requires you to be the target of an attack. This is not an attack, it's damage from a super power.

2) No. That damage would be damage from pushing, not from the incapacitate.

3) That is all currently legal and is pretty close to the dreaded wildcard loop. Provided the change is declared before the attack, it can be done. It just can't be done mid-action.

My general method of playing is:
- I declare my intentions to attack.
- The target can announce any options (switching teams, using defend, etc).
- I can then cancel my attack or go ahead and from here on nothing can be done until it is resolved (unless someone PCs and that's just a rewind).

1) You would not be able to mastermind the damage as it is not an attack and the masterminder is not targetted mastermind never activates it would be the same for impervious.

2)Incap would not cause retaliation unless you rolled a crit or used enhancement. The point of damage comes from pushing not from the attack.

3)I am hoping that the next faq has something as to clarify the timing issues.

Jester

Further complicating matters: Mastermind.

Ok, what if Joker is attacked and masterminds damage onto a mystic. Would there be a retaliatory mystic 'attack?'

No. The damage the mystic is getting is coming from a super power (the Joker's mastermind), not an attack.

You make a good point. It applies to CCE as well. This has the effect of creating a problem with Phasing once again, though. And in cases like Battle Fury where the bold text says something completely different than the standard text, it's a wonder why there's a distinction in the font made at all!

But I will concede that "flavor text" cannot be ignored and does indeed contain essential information in certain cases.