My previous point had more to do with the actual Arrow IV's from the boks rather than the MWDA game itself. SS arrow IV's are relatively accurate, however, I prefer the SW and BR DI Towed Arrow IV's due to them almost never missing.

As for current FP arty, well, its not that special, and as it has already been said its about order denial. Oh look, you can either take 2 damage, or you can move and be prone next turn (albeit not take any damage till the arty lands)

Also on that note, if you are forced to move infantry rather than a tank drop or a mech move you planned previously then the arty player just beat you again :)

Just a thought.

@Casper. Spot on.

Artillery is about telling your opponent that they must move units X,Y,Z or take damage. Its main use is disrupting an enemy's formation or making them advance more quickly or slowly than they intended. Surprisingly effective, kind of I get 2-3 points of a kind of semi-Awe for one order.

FP artillery not that special? Well maybe compared to the A4. It is drift happy but correct placement means it hits a LOT. More than that, its drift means often it is hard to get safe.

Of course one side effect is you don't want your own units too close to it!! :)


@Will63

After everything you've seen and learned, after all you've experienced, you think the Draddog vs Roadspike contest is going to do much (quickly)? ;)

Yeah it'll be fixed. Now how long was CounterAssault out before they decreased the order efficiency again? :p

What, including the one the Merc Zahn deposited in the corner?

The LI Long Tom can be a bastard to deal with when played correctly. If you keep the mech close by the odds are pretty good that whatever fast units come across to try to deal with it will be knocked down to 2 damage ...ergo ... ineffective as long as the Long Tom still has its Hardened armor. To make matters more interesting you can screen it with Merc Gnomes which are also immune to most ballistic arty. Your opponent MUST have some AP arty on his end or he's going to have a bad day. I haven't seen a SS A4 played in a while but I suspect we will see them again when AoD hits.

The LI Paladin isn't bad either. Reactive makes it immune to most non-AP arty as well and THREE pogs makes for awesome order efficiency. Your one order is forcing your opponent to move 3 units/groups. Not bad at all.

JF Sylphs = No more SSA4's

Sigh...

Sometimes, I think reading is a lost art.

From one of the articles:

An example of an existing rule being changed to benefit the more competitive environment is the change to line of fire and artillery rules. In Dark Age, artillery units got +4 to their attack values if the lines of fire to their markers were not blocked. Age of Destruction reduces that to +2 and otherwise returns the artillery rules to their state prior to the June 2004 FAQ. Older artillery units may have errata issued to bring them in line with Age of Destruction artillery units.

Yes, using the old artillery units (particularly the SSA4) with the pre-June 2004 rules makes them overpowered. But as indicated in the article, they may have an errata to bring them in line with the AOD units (which are more expensive than the old units).

The A4 is going to be banned in a year, WK should let Will and Corle have their fun. :P

@Axetheane
Please tell me how the JF Sylph beats an A4?

Assuming your opponent has a modicum of intelligence the A4 is not parked in the middle of the table on its own! So it is not vulnerable to basing (believe me prevention of base contact is the FIRST thing an artillery player thinks about, otherwise that person is NOT what I would consider an experienced artillery player!!)

It is not vulnerable to shooting by the Sylph because wherever the Sylph stops for a move-shoot it will be in range of the Arrow's support.

I cannot see how it can get to the Arrow IV unless you commit so much of your force to the attack it amounts to a swarm. Seriously, you need to think about it from an artilleryplayer's perspective.

Every strategy has a counter-strategy. But that means every counter-strategy also has a counter! If it seems an obvious way of dealing with artillery then it probably is not the right one. Because if you thought of it, so did your opponent and they will have taken steps to counter it.

Too many people don't see past the first layer. I'm not saying that's you, hence why I'd like to see what you do about counters to the Sylph.

As for the A4 being banned in a year, that is a year where a lot of new players will get discouraged and leave. That is the point about "whining" about artillery. Without new players we HAVE NO GAME! WK will just stop supporting it and I don't want that to happen. Do you?


@Jenskot
If Falcons Prey artillery is anything to go by, don't expect too much on the errata! I love it when people put so much faith in a company that gave us:

Hoverbikes as captors (wanna free your unit? Oops, I'm gone!)

Deep Water (Jonah Levin smacks your unit then hops in water)

Broken 1st turn infiltrators (Bart, Lego)

Broken artillery (SH DI Towed Field, SSw & SH DI Towed AA)

then fixed the problem (stacking) and promptly broke it again with the Arrow IV then only put the real problem to bed (order efficiency and ability to dictate what to move) just before the US Nationals.

Much as I like how they eventually get it right by listening to the people who understand the "Meta-game" (the ones who probably best realise why it is broken because they are the ones always pushing the game to breaking point), I have no faith that it will be right from the word go because the designers do not play the game at that level and have got it so spectacularly wrong in the past.

We have yet to see evidence that they have learned from past mistakes. Bless them! What was that confucian saying?

I believe it was something like

"A man should learn from his mistakes. A fool is doomed to repeat them."

I meant to say:

Come January we'll know which camp WK are in! :p :cheeky:

You're asking a lot

WAIT A MINUTE HERE

artillery pogs cant stack? what kind of bunk is that, i havent read a single rule that states you cant do that. that would be it, if you cant rapid hit a spot, what the heck is going on with this game?? jeasus that would suck....but again ive read nothing to the contrary, and btw, they need tp upt all those rules into one book, and not force people to keep up on a web site just to play a game that was meant to be simple.

@ Lord Quimbley

Pogs can stack but not the damage from pogs of the same artillery unit.

So if my SSw AIV hits with his two pogs the same target I only do 2 damage not 4.

Regards

No, am saying that your assumption that someone is not going to measure your ranges before pushing away from artillery poggage is flawed.

Sure, when playing some random scrub, they might be more than willing to push their units right into my range, but I doubt it.
Because the move shoot range of a JF sylph is 16 inches. It is not very likely that any base screeners can shoot that far. If there is an AA gun protecting it, then that is an investment in points that precludes the usage of an effective base screen (post AOD), and would be extremely vulnerable to counter artillery unless using faction pure base screeners.

I do it all the time, sure the Sylph is on a suicide mission, but it tends to be worth it.

Add a H Paladin to the mix and let's see that JF Sylph beat the artillery.

Not an assumption I made, sorry. I don't think in terms of "next turn". This is a game with an objective. Always keep the objectives in mind.


Remember, the opposing formation is sat on its behind unable to do anything for a turn. That gives their opponent two turns to get to them. Anyway who says you actually need to use the anti-personnel? If it acts as a deterrent and prevents someone doing what they want to do - by intimidation - then you are in control and that can be just as valuable.

If you want to win, you have to assume your opponent is likely to be experienced and intelligent. If you win your first round then your next opponent will probably have won a round too and thus worthy of respect. In any case, any opponent is worthy of respect - until they prove otherwise :)


14" actually (8"move plus 6" range). Don't even need AA. Then when it pushes to move-fire it needs a 10. Having hit (10 is hit 62.5% of the time) and does one click (Heavy armour) it then needs an 11 (50% chance) for another 2. So 31.25% of the time you do 3 clicks, 31.25% of the time you do 1 and 37.5% of the time you do nothing.

So you sacrifice 30 points for an average expected damage to an Arrow IV of 1.25 clicks of damage... doesn't exactly sound like a fair trade to me.

That's exactly what I mean, I don't see it as the answer unless there is a subtlety I missed somewhere.