Again i agree competing on the pro level and asking for a do over because you forgot to play a resource would be like going to the olympics and asking to rerun the 100M dash because your shoe was untied.

It just shouldn't happen ecspecially on something so basic, what people do on thier friendly games is there own business but in a professional formoney event those competing shouldbe familiar at least with the basic game mechanics. The mark of a good player would be to screw up accpt it and still come back for the win.

Personal Responsibility a foriegn concept here in America to be sure, but a vital one none the less.

Eric, you're just trying to rules lawyer. If you tried to make your opponent miss the resource drop because they threw down their character before their resource, you are just [Kerg-Edit] You know good and well what they intended to do and letting them go back doesn't harm anything. By getting upset about this and demanding the harshest possible enforcement of the rules you are just saying that you want to get cheap wins in a tournament. If you were good enough to earn them and your deck was solid this wouldn't matter to you. If you lost something because you didn't win a game where your opponent was allowed to go back, you didn't deserve a win anyway so stop whining. By starting this post you make yourself look like a great big [Kerg-Edit]. I strongly hope that isn't the case but, please, just listen to yourself. Seriously.

[Kerg-Edit]


If you aren't good enough to play a resource when you mean to, you deserve to lose.

I'd retort by saying that occasionally dropping, say a 5 drop, when you forgot to drop the 5th resource, means you are probably smarter than some type A jerk who never misses a step. You're just thinking ahead and you slipped. It's like making a typo. It doesn't make you any poorer of a player. GDE your comments were idiotic. If you really want to trash talk we can have at but I'd rather not. This isn't a Magic forum, after all.

I know this topic was discussed before on a different location here in the board. I dunno, I think the game has been soaked up long enough for people at tourneys to know the basic rules, don't you think?

I understand that in tournaments, people succumb to things like fatigue, hunger, etc, due to the toll the event puts on you. People will make mistakes. So go to sleep, eat, and go to the bathroom when you can to avoid it from happening. lol

Overall, I agree at the professional level, you mess up, then it's your loss.

That situation happened to me twice in the 10K in Indy.
In the first one I let the guy to go back and play the resource. The second time I think a little and call a judge. He said that for being in the beggining of the rounds in the 10k they were not punish the players for those actions and let the players go back. I felt bad, not for me but for what my opponent may think of me. I'm not a dick and don't want to be one.
I must say that all my opponent in the 10K were pretty cool guys and I had fun with them so being in this situation is not a good experience. After those incidents I decide to let pass to my opponents mistakes once and let them know what they did wrong so they don't do it again.
I understand Eric arguments pretty well and even when rules must be enforce I may let that mistake (the resource one) pass with a warning of my part (but just once). I understand that we are humans and tend to make mistakes sometimes or forget to do things. Sometimes you know or feel when your opponent is doing things to slow down the game or trying to cheat at you. In those situations I don't let pass anything.

Sid:classic:

I don't think people should miss the resource drop and I don't go back anymore in casual play. The gorup I play with are casual and friendly enough to allow it but I make myself stick to the rules and I don't go back anymore. But you know what I don't wanan win a game cause some guy forgot to play his resource before he dropped his character. I let everyone go back except my serious playtest partner and that is only because I think we both need to play more proffesional.

But guess what not everyone wants to do that, most people don't till it affects them. Most people would like a friendly casual enviroment where they don't feel they have to be so uptight that they can never aford to make one mistake.

Personally I think you guys are uptight and need to learn it is a game, I don't know if it should be allowed in like the top 8, but in the qualifying rounds screw that, not everyone can be perfect.

And when your opponent plays slow if you worry about tiem you tend to play fast to make sure you have time for 3 games in case they win the first one. You shouldn't get punished cause you're oponent has to concentrate on each brain cell to use it to think and takes 2 minutes to decide one attack.

Wow I think thinking about this has swayed me to the side of single games in each match though.

I don't like a rule not being enforced.

On the other hand I dilike even more when players lose because of technical mistakes. They should know better yes, but I think talent and skill deserves a lot more leeway than the ability to be anal about every detail. I'd like to see the rule changed so that dropping a resource is NOT optional unless you verbally confirm that you don't intend to play one this turn.

Other things like forgetting to use abilities and whatnot are different in that not everyone wants to use them every time they can. Where as unless they have a very specific reason, people will ALWAYS want to play a resource.

-Mike

so for those who are casual about things and know we can suffer from fatique, stress, etc. lemme know about that so we can have a fun game in real life at the tournaments...a fair game based on skill.

for those who want to force these rules and win by technicalities, please state your name so I know to be that way to you at a tournament. Odds are, eventually, you'll slip up and want a replay. =/

I follow the rules. I don't forget to play a resource. The ONLY reason I skip a resource is to stay at 4 playing TNB with no Genosha's in play.


If you can't remember to do something so important as playing a resource, you suck.

Please keep the discussion civil folks.

im kinda lost here for a sec, k you have each part of the game broken into phases, then each phase is broken down into steps. you have to do each step and phase in a vertian order. now the resource step is part of the build phase. and the recruit step is the second part of the same phase. at what point does it state in the above ruling that you can recruit a character first and then lay down a resource?

It doesn't. However, UDE has taken the position that as long as you have not successfully recruited a character yet, you can play a resource, even if it is after you attempt to recruit a character.


-Eric

That attack was uncalled for and I'm glad Kerg found it before I did. As for the content of it...

I'm not trying to rules lawyer. Anybody that knows me or has played against me will tell you that I am not like that. I do though like to play the game by the rules as they are written, especially at pro events. I'm not gonna let you "take back" things. What happens if I do and then you don't let me take back the same thing later? I've essentially let you gain an advantage by allowing you to cheat. I prefer to try and hold my opponent to the same standard as I hold myself and not make any mistakes like this. If they make one I will call them on it. If I make one I expect them to do the same. That is not rules lawyering.

Mistakes always have been and always will be part of the game. Recruiting a character before playing a resource is a play mistake. Why should people at a PRO EVENT where large amounts of money is on the line be able to take back these mistakes?

If you play this game at a high level you want consisitent enforcement of all of the rules. The thing that bothers me the most about this is that what UDE is ruling directly contradicts the rules that I am supposed to rely on to tell me how the game is played.

Again I'm going to reiterate that this is NOT a discussion about casual games or casual gamers.


-Eric

I haven't posted much here since I'm still learning the game. I've played in several high level tournaments to gain player experience so as to judge more effectively. I am a judge at heart though and while I respect TostitoBandito, I completely disagree with his position on this issue.

What amazes me is that some people want to impose a stricter standard to rules interpretation for a card game than is found under U.S. Federal and most state law --mind blowing to me at least.


The objective of the rules is not to exalt form over substance. Any penalty issued must be commensurate with the procedural error. The objective is to ensure fair play, not to smack someone over the head to ensure blind adherence to rules and thus give the opponent a decided advantage.

If a player does not set a resource but immediately attempts to recruit a character of a level equal to that of the current turn, then the player's intent was clear -- she or he intended to set a resource that turn. How has the opponent been prejudiced if the player is given an opportunity to effectuate that clear intent? In my view, not at all. However, as noted by others, if you do not allow the player to back up, then you are effectively issuing a game loss. That simply is too huge a penalty for the first offense (the second offense is a different story).

403.2 states that building a resource is optional. The implicit ruling is that you must declare whether you intend to exercise that option before you can leave the Resource Step.

Perhaps the ultimate resolution is to make the rule explicit --

"403.2 Building a resource is optional. A player must declare whether he or she will build a resource before leaving the Resource Step of the Build phase."

Perhaps the above would silence the debate if used.

Just some thoughts ....