Yeah but it is still screwing with the integrity of the games. You will do things you wouldn't normally do to try and get the prize.

I virtually never win by 30+ endurance in limited, a lot of my games have me in the single digits because I am trying to win as soon as possible. If on turn 6 I can zero my opponent but have my whole board stunned also, I'll make the attacks. If I'm doing that 30 endurance thing I will attack down the whole way and minimise the stun damage I can take, maximising breakthrough on them and praying they don't have a trick. I will team up New Gods with my guys so I can use that 3-drop Scott Free to give my guys invulnerability. I will play my concealed-optional guys in the visible area off-initiative so I can reinforce and use them as a "wall" of sorts.

The three or more affiliations just means you'll flip your team-up on the dual affiliated character ASAP, regardless of the situation. What if you lose that game due to not being able to reinforce someone, or not being able to team attack for enough? That team-up would have served a far more useful purpose.

Hitting consecutive drops is pretty random but you could have an off-curve deck making sub-optimal recruits for that purpose. Can you not get this "random" prize if you're going off-curve? Way to exclude people from the chance of winning a free playmat.

This might sound like I'm nitpicking but I don't like the idea of people trying weird stuff instead of trying to, well, win. Those examples DO help you win in the right scenario. Sometimes a 5-drop is better than a 6-drop because he has a greater attack value, is team stamped, has some relevant ability, whatever. People will focus their game around trying to win using these alternate conditions and they will bypass better plays because of it, and I'd rather that didn't happen.

I think it comes down to this: do you want some people to purposely make awkward, often less optimal plays or leave the game as it is? I know what I prefer.

techno- Pre-Releases are supposed to be more casual then competitive. It is entirely up to the player whether he/she goes out of their way to try and fulfill these tasks for the prizes or doesn't. Most people will because its FUN, and a challenge within a challenge of the game itself is always cool.

If you want to play at a Pre-Release because you want to practice sealed for the set, your crazy. Pre-Releases are supposed to be about the fun of opening packs and discovering new cards, while playing at a chance for cool prizes. Why not add more to the fun?

~Tombster212

That is not why I play at a pre-release. I play because I'm hyped over the new set, I want to get some cards, I enjoy seeing people I never see outside Vs. tournaments and I just want to play some cards.

There are probably some people there solely for the sake of getting new cards, sure. Do they TRY to build a bad deck? Do they enjoy LOSING? Do they purposely play badly to avoid a victory? It's not like there is much room for a "fun" deck in sealed pack anyway, you're restricted to the cards you get.

I do not understand why anyone wouldn't want to win every game they play. Isn't winning fun? What about the people who drop at 0-2 and 1-3, is that because they were having fun losing? They might only be attending for the cards but you can't tell me they would drop at 3-0.

Yes, it's a fairly casual event primarily for showing off the new set, but most of us want to get some proper games of Vs. while we're there, and why anything but winning is on your mind when playing I have no idea.

My point was that people go to see the new set, and try to win cool prizes while using the set. It wasn't that people go to go and have fun and not care about winning.

I am of the belief that to win the cool prizes you should try to win your games rather than deal 10 BEL in one attack.

Thats called winning in a hurry chief, and I had to pull that stunt off twice to win that playmat. And you want to know what made that situation slightly worse for me, I had to do it against a 7 year old. And to make that situation worse...that 7 year old was the judge's son. So yeah, im sure the Judge was thrilled at watching his sons confidence get blown up on 2 seperate attacks.

So instead of crippling a 7 year olds enjoyment of the game, or his/her day. Why not just give out the playmats and extra prizes randomly as door prizes still having enough for the players that finish at the top.

It is alot more exciting watching slips get pulled out of a hat and having your name called, or not called and realising that the luck just wasnt with you that day. Instead of watching the prizes get given to everyone the TO's Know or other inferior manners of prize distribution.

I was going to do some "fun" giveaways for the door prizes and was told not to do so because there might be an appearance of impropriety if regulars just "happened" to be the ones who were able to jump through the hoops based on their decks.

Instead I threw all the match result slips in a box, mixed them up and had the store owner start picking them out of there and handed the prizes out based on that.

As much as I like the idea of having secondary objectives, I understand wanting to avoid the appearance of impropriety and will do so as much as is possible.

I've debated wether to reply or not, and I have decided to go ahead and reply. In the future is anyone ever has a problem with how I do anything, contact me and I will happily dicuss the issue. It is fairly easy to contact me considering I am the editor of a website, and I frequent these boards and I post to Vs-Judge list.

I am only human, and I know I make mistakes and my ego is not such as I don't think I can continue to improve. I don't do what I do on a whim, but more of a carfeully thought out plan. I do it this way for several reasons.

1. It is a teaching tool

At sneak previews there are many new players to the game. Or maybe not new, but players that don't usually play in tournaments. I have found the best way to teach players new machincs is for them to use them.

Most players if they are not familier with a new mechanic, will just ignore it and not even try to use it. So, if I give a prize to the first three people to use the reservist mechanic, then everyone in the tournament actaully takes a momnet to make sure they can do that.

I always make sure most of the "random" methods I do utilize some of the mechanics in the new set or reinforces mechanics that have been reprinted in the new set. In the case of JLA I choose cosmic, reservist, and evasion.

2. It fun!

The purpose of Sneak Previews is to have fun and promote the game. I feel the players enjoy this process and they have fun. I've been doing this since the Web of Spiderman Sneak Preview and I have received ZERO complaints from my players. I feel justified in what I do conidering everyone who actually attends my events supports my decisions and the only ones who have a problem with it are those who have never been to one of my events.

3. It is random

It is my opinion that this meets the definition of random. There is no way to predetrimine who will win the prize. I follow a strict guidlines when doing this to avoid any perception of favortism. The prizes are always given out in a specific order and that does not change. While yes, players can make certain decisions to increase their chances, it is still random. They still have to have cracked the card in their booster, they still have to have included that card in thier deck, and then they still have to have actually drawn the card that can meet the criteria for that round. And in all that, they still have to have done it before all the prizes for that round are gone.

4. It actually gives a better distribution of prizes amoung all participants

It is a proven fact of raffle drawings, if you are one of the first people to enter, your ticket tends to be on the bottem and have a very low chance of receiving the "random" prize. So people who show up early actually have a worse chance than those that show up late or barely in the nick of time.

And if you make an effort to pick one off the top then you are punishing those that most recently signed up! The only way to make it more truely random is to have a turning barrel of some kind to mix up the entries.

Since we ran 16 man flights, I gave out the random prizes for each flight seperately. This actually gives all the particpants a more equal chance of getting a prize, better than the traditional "random" method.

5. Did I mentin it was fun?

I mention this again because this is the purpose of a Sneak Peak. I'm for anything that increases the fun level of the event without compromising the integrity of that event.

In short, I stand behind my actions as propper and appropreiate.

Here's something to consider.

I go to a pre-release. I win my first round. There are a lot of people that want to get as many cards as possible, so many drop after their second loss. I end up not going undefeated, and because some of the people I beat dropped, I end up getting a horrible tie breaker, and get 4th or 5th instead of possibly 2nd or 3rd.

That means I get less boosters as prize support, and possibly 'lose' a playmat/deckbox because of someone else.

Not, instead of that, say that someone you played against 'lost' because they gave up on trying to 'win' [which would have possibly gotten them more product, but little else, because they aren't doing well] and instead try to get the prize support they wouldn't be able to win otherwise.

A lot of people go to the pre-release for the shwag. However, if someone who tries to get the shwag by doing well ends up NOT doing well because someone they played against screwed up their tie-breaks by trying to win the 'side bet' ... they wouldn't be too pleased.

The people who lose ... it doesn't really matter. However when the difference between second and fifth can come down to tie breakers, having one of your previous opponent's 'throw' a match to get a door prize, or drop to get more product, can be very annoying.

Here's a case where random distribution was actually 'fun':

At a sealed event at Gen Con, there was random distribution of playmats and deck boxes every round. I had done poorly, but decided to play on anyhow. Several rounds I ended up waiting for opponent's that wouldn't come as not only had they dropped ... they failed to even MENTION they had dropped. I had little chance of winning anything, but I wanted to play [and played 'for fun' against other people in my situation.] and didn't feel like ruining the tie breakers of anyone I had faced. In the last round, I was faced with an opponent, we were fighting at the bottom table ... and we ended up getting the door prizes that round.

Now, that may not have been 'random' ... it could have been a pity 'booby prize' for all I know. But it was nice to get something out of 'sticking too it' ... especially because I didn't EXPECT to get anything out of staying in the tournament.

'Fun' and 'fair' are rarely going to be the same thing, and odds are that it's more fun for the people that can pull the stuff off then that can't.

Having prizes for 'Do X first' will always be scewed. Simply the restriction on being the first to do it means that players that take their time [AND more importantly, their opponent's] will have less of a chance to win.

There COULD be a way to have it both be random and still 'fun' ... the head judge/T.O. would have to specify a certain condition like ... the loser of the 5th match. But keep it a secret. There's no way to know before hand who will be the loser of the 5th match. And if the players don't know what the condition in, they can't try to time their game to be the 5th to end ... etc.

Depending on the number of players it could be hard [i.e. trying to spot the first person to KO a character they control, or something like that].

It could even be a condition based on the decklists. [If anyone has over the 30 card limit, randomly select from those players, etc].

It can be random so long as:

The condition(s) are set up before the packs are opened

and

They aren't told to the players [which would influence how they play ... 'trying' to win the prize stops it from being random.]

Still, again, it would be hard to do it without a good judge to player ratio ... so that the judges could spot the first [or 3rd] time something happens.

I think you still don't understand how these things are run...

Top 4 get a playmat or a deck box. So if you really really want them, you can do your thing, win at all costs. Then, you get your prizes.

If you want to get the mat easily, you can evade a 1 drop instead working your butt off to win the whole thing.

It's not just ALL random prizes. You do get stuff for winning.

I understood that part just fine. I don't think I'll ever agree with offering prizes for "cool" things, I still feel it's messing with the integrity of the tournament.

took my post to private messages instead.

I can see how you have your opinion Techno and why your opinion is what it is.
I just know that having people (not so much yourself) attack the integrity of a judge that by all estimations is totally on the up and up isn't cool, especially when the people doing the attacking weren't there to take offense in the first place. I can honestly say that in my 10+ years of gaming, a majority of my events played have been with this particular company which has always set a high standard for how events should be run. I have played in 2 pre release events for vs. and never witnessed impropriety or even felt the least uneasy about the ethics involved, nor heard any complaints from other participants either. I again maintain that the integrity of the game is intact because if a decision is made by anyone, it is not at all Chad, but the players. I feel pretty lucky to be able to play this game on a semi competitive level and have the opportunity to play it on a competitve level because judges give their time with minimal return. Just like they chose to, they can choose not to and to be needlessly attacked because the players in an informal event (gasp) had fun, well it just doesn't make sense to me. The thread originator was writing about what a great time he had. It turned into a miniature attack on a judge because he won a door prize.

Maybe you should play in a Chad-run event before judging if it's "fun" or "frustrating."

And there's something wrong with being part of the event?

As are yours talking to him like that when you've never met the guy or played in one of his events.