(snip)

Great Guys is a good deck, but it's not as consistent in its drops as some decks (like any deck that relies on a two-drop and doesn't have more than 8 ways to see said two-drop), has trouble with out-of-combat stuns, needs to draw into its teamups, sucks against anybody playing Deadshot, etc. There are teched builds of Good Guys that are better along the competitive scale. I don't think Great Guys is a good starting point for an argument to ban Phantom Stranger, not even close.

EDIT TO ADD: ...your build doesn't even run 4x Enemy? WTF? Man, it's not even close to optimal and you think that's broken?

We tested a better build of this for DC Modern. And decided it wasn't good enough. This deck is not broke, don't be stupid.

Doesn't that just die to 3-drop Kang? And where are the Nth Metals?

Can you defeat my KANG?!

edit: I will kill you all!

No wait, what I really meant to post was..

OMFGBBQ! That's as broken as BAMF!!!one!1!!!eleventyone!!

Obv. that's why Chb likes Silver Age so much. The evil BAMF is gone.



All right, that's my first and last. I don't get it.

Why did they ban Antartic Research Base, Talia and Valeria again?

I believe it had to do with sifting through your deck without giving you card advantage.

Although it did get some card advantage using Reconstruction Program and Mark V's [as well as Frankie Raye and Stranger].

Seeing more cards means searching out your combo pieces.

Using the same cards to keep your hansize up, on the other hand, is not AS good.

Cards have been banned for the EXPRESS purpose of enabling someone to see their entire deck much too soon.

And your argument here is that a deck THEY HAD TO HAVE KNOWN ABOUT is broken.

He's designed to work as an ally enabler ... if there is a 'broken' ally deck built around Phantom Stranger, then my opinion of the playtesters would be significantly altered. Your deck appears to have nothing 'special' or 'techy' at all.

Ultimately, what you've posted is way too 'obvious' to be broken.

And you own no Nth Metals?

And you have to team up three teams without any search for said team ups?

And Satelite HQ ... a single copy ... for the purpose of attacking concealed characters I suppose. And no way to search for it.

As I said, my Great Guys deck is sub-optimal, because I don't own 4 copies of EomE and couldn't find space for more Sattelite HQs (plus no one runs Kang (3) anyway).

Oh, and I forgot to add in the Nth Metals. There are 4, of course (that list is likely 56 cards if you count :P)

Also, note that Talia and Valeria let you look through your ENTIRE DECK and grab what you need. Saying "search your deck for 4 cards, put them into your hand, and remove the rest from the game" is significantly more powerful than "draw 2 cards, discard 2 cards".

Also note that I didn't say Phantom Stranger was broken EXCLUSIVELY because of Great Guys. What I said (or intended to say) was that if they had to do something about Frankie and her combo, to consider the fact that the Frankie decks almost exclusively use Phantom Stranger as well (I'm sure one of the teams has something cooked up that doesn't, but I have yet to see it), and Phantom Stranger makes other decks (like Great Guys) too good, not just Frankie, and Stranger clogs up way more design space than Frankie.

Phantom Stranger is to your "Great Guys" as TTGO is to Titans.





















Wait, TTGO is on your banlist.

Look at the last silver age PC to see how powerup builds don't win high level tournaments.
Great Guys isn't great against the top decks in the high level metagame, regardless of the results at your local hobby league.

There's not much anyone here can say to convince you of that, you'll have to do the testing yourself (or bring it to the next PC), because you seem like the kind of guy that won't take anyone else's word on this one.

Hmm. I don't see how that makes your point. It's just a powerup. If you are brickwalling attacks, you wouldn't want to exhaust anything bigger than a 2 to get it back for free, because that would limit your ability to swing back. In most situations, it's probably no better in that deck than The Uni-Power. Its only real advantage is that you can get it back with Slaughter Swamp.

Good, not great, and far from banworthy.

@JinxM: Interesting that you say that since 2 sets have been released since the last Silver Age PC. Interestingly enough, in said Silver Age PC, I count 16 copies of Dr. Light, a now-banned card, and 5 copies of The Phantom Stranger, despite there being no Frankie Abuse or Powerup decks, in the Top 8. When we see what Silver age looks like without Dr. Light, we'll see.

@kansashoops: Why does everyone harp on the fact that I used Great Guys as an example of why Phantom Stranger is too good? I didn't say "Phantom Stranger is too good because of Great Guys", I said "Phantom Stranger makes Great Guys much better than it should be, for example, and if you're going to ban something to make the Frankie Raye decks weaker, I'd start with him, because he causes problems elsewhere, in addition to the Frankie Raye decks".

Wow, Phantom Stranger in 5's? REALLY?

Come on, we all know it was only there to make Discard a bit better.

That's like saying Scottie Pippen was just as broken as Micheal Jordon? Is he? Hell no. But he helped a lot. That's it.

Curve decks in general with little/no off-curve hate die to Kree.

I said there were 5 copies of Phantom Stranger in the top 8. Don't be cute.

And a point I missed: Phantom Stranger is much closer to Mag 7 than Uni-Power. Mag 7 gives you a free, teamstamped powerup on ATK or DEF and replaces itself when it goes away for a condition. Phantom Stranger is a teamstamped powerup that works on ATK or DEF and can bring itself back for minimal cost. Uni-Power is a powerup that can only be played on ATK and only before the attack starts, so it can't be used as a combat trick. It also doesn't have any mechanism for replacing itself when it goes away.

Granted, but you can take it as an example of how Phantom Stranger was available, but all the people who played Good Guys didn't bother to put it in, because it didn't actually make the build better.

Or as a better example, Big Brotherhood (and variants) using Lost City are way more powerful than anything using Phantom Stranger, yet they were never even considered for banning.

As soon as you say you're doing something with Power-ups, you're telling us your win condition uses regular combat. Regular combat builds are almost never broken. (For one thing, they lose rather easily to stall and combo, not to mention things like Titans' out of combat stuns.)