But his "Perplex" has a "himself" limitation.

Again, Shaft...Shaft, I think nbperp uses this because it can just shut people up as it has double meaning...a character's name and the concept that the ruling might just shaft ya, but hey...roll with it!

Then the power is taking priority over the feat which is not how it's supposed to be.

First of all...there is no such rule.

Second of all...there isn't a priority issue.

BT changes the QUANTITY of people who can be targeted. It does not change the type of people who can be targeted (expect for restricting it to friendly figures).

With ICwBW and BT, there is not anything in BT which lifts the restriction of ICwBT. It isn't a precedence.




Step back and look at it from a different perspective.

Let's say that Starfox could use BT. "Influence: Starfox can use Perplex, but he can't target himself." Would you have said that BT would open it up for him to target himself?

I see nothing in the sentence on page 19 to indicate that "altering" a power is only in reference to symbols. It says "power, ability, or symbol." Not to repeat myself intentionally, but again:

Page 19:
"If a prerequisite power, ability, or symbol has been countered or altered on a character by any game effect (such as the Earthbound or Outwit powers), the character can't use any feats that have them as a prerequisite."

So I guess I'm finally realizing my whole argument rests on the questions of whether a Special Power is a "game effect," and if the "can only target himself" restriction is an example of a power being "altered," correct? "Altered" is not defined in the glossary, and while the definition for "effect" is stated as a "power, ability, or other rule," it doesn't actually say "all powers," so to me, there is admittedly some understandable difference in interpretation.

If Wizkids has deemed the "+2 Perplex" example for Mr. Fantastic usable with Brilliant Tactician, then I think one or more of the following needs to happen: "game effect" and "altered" need to be clarified; the entire sentence I keep copying and pasting needs to be changed or removed via errata; or they have to change the ruling for "+2 Perplex."

Can someone please acknowledge the logic in my interpretation so I know I'm not an idiot?

Yup, but not with the initial use of Perplex.

I'm gonna say no, he still can't target others. The restriction on his SP specifically says that he can only target himself for Perplex. BT only mentions that he can "affect every target friendly character" but never actually grants the option to target said figures. In other words, if Batman were able to target other figs he could Perplex them all. Since he cannot it's just wasted points.

What you're missing that the Perplex that Batman has is not Perplex. Batman has a Special Power called "In Contact with Bruce Wayne". ICwBW has a form of a restricted Perplex. This does not make the Perplex altered. And none of this is relevant, since ICwBW does not prevent Brilliant Tactician to be assigned on Batman. It merely restricts the way Perplex given by ICwBW can be used.

Page 19, let's try to make the copied phrase a little bit clearer:

"If a prerequisite power or ability is countered, or symbol has been altered on a character by any game effect (such as the Earthbound or Outwit powers), the character can't use any feats that have them as a prerequisite." I merely changed the wording so that it would be a bit clearer.

It's just that it was written so that powers, abilities and symbols were all added together, even though only powers and abilities are countered (via Outwit), whereas symbols are altered. Nothing more.

I already did the same with INwBW, but here's the same for Mr Fantastic's Inventive Genius:

Adding the text from BT changes it to this:

INVENTIVE GENIUS: Mr. Fantastic can use Perplex (When the character uses Perplex, the character can affect every target friendly character that shares a team symbol or keyword with it. The character must have a clear line of fire to each target.), but he can modify the target's combat values by +2 or -2 if he is targeting himself of another character with which he shares a keyword.

Once again, BT does not overwrite the restriction/specification given by Inventive Genius. Same happens with ICwBW

Still... The "Batman" is totally 80rk3n!!

Wouldn't that pretty much mean that the meaning of "altered" needs to be clarified? Because it sounds like altered Perplex to me.

While you're getting things clarified, can you get "reduce" covered as well? We've been needing it for awhile.

I'll try. :knockedou

And you missed the part where I explained that Powers and abilities are countered, whereas symbols are altered.

Page 19 mentions that powers, abilities and symbols are countered or altered. Then it gives 2 examples: Outwit for countering (powers), and Earthbound for altering (symbols).

From the Glossary:

Powers, Abilities and Countering are mentioned. Let's see how removing those words might change the page 19 text:

"If a prerequisite power, ability, or symbol has been countered or altered on a character by any game effect (such as the Earthbound or Outwit powers), the character can't use any feats that have them as a prerequisite."

It turns into this: "If a prerequisite symbol has been altered on a character by any game effect, the character can't use any feats that have them as a prerequisite."

There is no "altered Perplex". There's only normal Perplex, named Perplex, and Perplex used in a Special Power.

Altered is when for instance Earthbound or the Crosswinds alter the Wing symbol (or other special combat symbols) into a standard combat symbol.

But by wording of the feat he doesn't target them. He affects them. He targets himself. He affects everyone else with the power.

What's the difference between affect and target?

I'd say that in order to affect someone with Perplex, you need to be able to target them.
Do you think a BT character would be able to affect someone who is in Stealth?

Perplex "affects" all pieces in the map. Affect meaning by no one can turn off the effect when it's in use. Like this:

Batman Perplexes his Defence by 1. Now his Defence is 18. This concerns all players, figures. Without altering his Defence, it's now 18.