You are getting hung up on the idea that half of something must be a replacement. Halving something, IE cutting something from what it is into half of that, is a replacement. Saying another independent value, such as AoE, is equal to half the range value does not change the range value at all. Both involve half of range but one actually replaces the range value with something new while the other just calls it for reference in a formula while not actually replacing it.

I tried to provide a simple example to help you understand what is going on and you chose to mock me.

Perhaps HeroClix is not a good game for you if you cannot understand the published rules.

Charge, Running Shot, and HSS never state replacement. They halve, which is the definition of a replacement.

If Pulse Wave Area of Effect stated that it affected characters up to half the Character's Range, then I would agree that it was similar to Mjolnir's Song.

I agree. But you use the Character's Range when you determine what the Area of Effect is. That determination is half of a Combat Value. Whenever a combat value needs to be calculated for any game effect, the controller of the character whose value needs to be calculated starts with the printed value, applies all replacement values in any order, then applies the sum of all modifiers to arrive at a final result.
I still fail to see how taking half of this combat value does not fall within the 1st Golden Rule.

Right in Pulse Wave? It cannot be more clear. "The Area of Effect for this attack is half the character's range." How do you know what the range value is to determine what half is? You have to calculate it.

AREA OF EFFECT
Some powers and abilities use the term “area of effect.” An area of effect allows a power or game effect to target more than one character. Characters within the area of an effect are affected even though they may not be within the character’s range or line of fire. When it includes an attack, only one attack roll is made and the Attack Total is compared to each target character as well as any other characters specified by the area of effect. When a character is attacked exclusively as a result of being in an area of effect, it is not considered a target of the attack and it may be friendly to the attacking character. The game effect including an area of effect will define how damage is dealt to hit characters and may specify targeted characters’ damage differently from other hit characters. When a power or ability uses a ranged combat attack with an area of effect, if the game effect describes target characters, then the attacking character may multi-target normally, possibly creating multiple areas of effect.

Again, the bolded sentence shows clearly that Area of Effect is a completely independent thing from range. You are not using a characters range when you are applying an Area of Effect to a character.

You are not taking half of anything. You are referencing what half of something would be and then using that in a new and completely independent process.

Area of Effect
Some power and abilities use the term "are of effect." An area of effect allows a power or game effect to target more than one character. Characters within the area of effect are affected even though they may not be within the character's range or line of fire.

Pulse Wave
The area of effect for this attack is half the character's range.

While half of a character's range is within its range, consider if it was this instead...

The area of effect for this attack is double the character's range.

Clearly this would be a case where the range is X, while the area of effect is 2X. The character wouldn't be able to shoot the characters greater than X, but the area of effect would still affect those characters.

Again, area of effect is not range.

This...

The area of effect for this attack is half the character's range.

Is not the same as this...

Halve the character's range. The area of effect for this attack is the character's range.

When Nerkkod Pulse Waves while standing in water, what is his range? Without perplex, his range is 10. What is the area of effect for Pulse Wave? Its 5. His range never changes. Pulse Wave does not replace his range with anything, his range continues to stay at 10.

The Area of Effect for this attack is half the character's range.

Everyone is stating that this equates to:

Area of Effect for this attack is half X.
[Calculate Range, then use half of that to determint AoE.]

Why couldn't it be this?

Area of Effect for this attack is X.
[half of Range, which is taking the Combat Value and applying a Replacement of Half, which allows you to include other Replacements in the timing/order, then apply the final result to the AoE.]

Other than being Oranged, how would we know the intent, and is there anything that makes the second interpretation any less valid than the first?


And I still like the donut analogy, MikeTheRed. No offense or insult was intended.

Replacements and modifiers only apply to combat values.

Area of Effect is not a combat value.

So, when you are making an Area of Effect that is half of the range value, you are not doing a replacement, you are doing a calculation.

How do we know this? Because Area of Effect is not a combat value and replacements only apply to combat values.

The donut example was very good. I would have used it as such.

Old Pulsewave: I love donuts. I see there is a dozen here. I will use this coupon to get half of that. (Replacement: you are changing these donuts into half of these donuts to use the coupon)

New Pulsewave: I love donuts. I see there is a dozen here, I will use this coupon to get other donuts that are equal to half of those. (You get 6 donuts....not those donuts)

I realize how stupid that sounds, but you didn't like the other one, that was much better, mathematically and in computer science

Old Pulsewave: R=R/2 (replacement)

New Pulsewave: A=R/2

A better formula is R=r/2. He already pointed out how R=R/2 must mean R is always 0.

I didn't say heroclix wasn't silly (mathematically)
I also won't say that Computer science isn't silly (mathematically)

if you wanted to do this instead (most programming languages have no problem with what I did, but that's insubstantial logical evidence)

you have to do this:

R (range)
r=R
R=r/2

I know and agree that the correct answer has been given. I am not debating the correct answer. However, I think dairoka has a valid point. We know the right answer so we're finding a justification for it, but the rules text isn't really clear in support of that answer. If you gave only the pertinent rules text to a group of people unfamiliar with HeroClix I'm fairly certain a significant number would draw the same conclusion he is. I can't be the only person reading this thread and thinking "this is murky, it needs cleaned up."

When I first looked at Nerkkod I thought to myself, "Sweet! He has a 10 range Pulse Wave." Then I re-read Pulse Wave to confirm my thoughts, thinking there is no way they wanted anyone to so easily Pulse Wave for 10 squares.

As soon as I read the Area of Effect line in Pulse Wave, I instantly realized you are no longer replacing the range value. You are not using the combat value, so there is nothing to replace. I didn't have to come here or ask a deputy. It does not say to halve the range value. It says the Area of Effect is equal to half the range value. You never actually halve anything.


I think the only thing that could be more clear is that the rules for Area of Effect in the rulebook could say something along the lines of each game effect will define what its Area of Effect is. Right now the rulebook just kinda talks about Area of Effects.

As for showing it to a group of people unfamiliar with Heroclix, that could be said about lots of things. I make it a point to try and teach new players at my venue. There are lots of things much simpler than this interaction that are murky to them.