"Again, it seems like everyone assumes it will be Alpha vs. The World in these games. Support WILL be present--I hope I'm not stupid enough to let your arty live that long."

What he said.

Yeah, you'll have support. But so will I, and hopefully I'm not that stupid to leave my artillery vulnerable until Alpha's shell is cracked.

But you'll need your support just to crack Alpha! :p

Seriously though... this is like little children playing cowboy:

"I shot you!"
"No you didn't!"
"Yes! I hit you!"
"No I dodged!"
"Well it was a homing bullet!"
"Well I have a decoy and it hit that!"

You get the idea (precocious little kids eh?). There's always something to counter everything else--but it's not possible to have everything at once. Just sating it's an "Alpha Army" vs. "Another Army" doesn't mean that one will decisively win against the other... without defining the rest of the pieces no one knows. It's really pointless to say what Mr. 5150 just said (no offense intended) when I can just fire back with "Well I won't be stupid enough to let you crack Alpha's shell before I destroy your artillery!"

My point was that everyone sees Alpha as a one-mech army... when in fact it would be backed up by (about) 170-190 points of infiltrating, tank-dropping, or pog-placing goodness.

This thread was about Alpha as a piece, and let's face it: I absolutely despise the SW, and I even say it's a #### good hunk of metal. It may not be the best, but it's not easily counterable either. With the right support to counter Alpha's counter... hell yeah!

Hear, hear, Exis! :grin:

And that's a great sig... even if I am a SW fan! :p

i first thought that the mangonel would be one of the new "cheese" - but she isn't
played today against her(ok..it was a mech-pure battle) - her range isn that important if there's lots of blocking and her defense of 21 is far too low to be effective; my opponent also used decoy with her(which is probably the best way to improve that mech) but i declared an assault order with Kava Graves(about the same pointcost) and had to roll an 11 twice - not too hard
rock-solid piece but far from unbeatable

I don't think anyone's arguing that you aren't going to play Alpha without decent support: what people are arguing is that she's not the most point-efficent 'mech to take, especially in an environment where 12+ attack 'mechs are going to be the norm. You can slap on Decoy, sure, but how hard is it for most people to roll 9 twice?

AGAIN: By the time that 'mech takes the shot, the WHOLE POINT of Alpha is that it will have had a 12 attack chance to bring that attacker's dial down 5 clicks. Owie. Try hitting an 11 twice! Average roll, maybe... but you'd be surprised!

"IN A WORLD OF 12 ATTACK MECHS"

what will save you in "a world of 12 attack mecks?"

a 23- 24 defence? still get hit more often than not

crazy deap dial? out of a maximuim of 17 clicks, 5 of them lost is alot

infantry swarm? swarm is kind of over isn't it? and swarm is always easy to counter.

artilery? artilery only works if I have to stay put to shot- and now I don't

vtols? of these choices probably the best, and only if there is allot of them and I have no other counter to them.

no, my point, as my point has always been, range IS everything. how do you beat 12 attack? SHOT THEM FIRST, SHOT THEM OFTEN. that is what makes anna, the best.

Statistically you have about a 50% chance to hit a def of 23 (with attack of 12) and about a 40% chance to hit a 24. So on this one statement I am going to have to argue against you.

Saying range is everything is about as narrow sighted as saying range is nothing. Of course it is something. Of course it isnt everything. There are many, many factors that matter in a game. Tactics, build, terrain, Faction pride and planetary condition cards, time and most importantly the ever unpredictable dice rolls.

Also it seems that you are argueing a point you didnt make. You state range is EVERYTHING and justify it with attack value. Yes she has a good attack value. Yes it makes her attack even more potentially lethal. No that still doesnt guarantee you a win.

Is AK and her mech the best combination? That is a matter of opinion backed up by stats and tactics. I happen to think that she can quite easily be bested by the X-Axis raptor with Aaron Sanduval in it. I am sure there are other pilots that may prove equally powerful in the x-axis. In the realm of customizeable mechs we will just have to put our money were out mouth is and prove it on the battlefield.

my evaluation of the "new 12 attack" mechs is based on the arguments by many other people that 21 defence is to low

justify why range matters? millions of tank drops can't be wrong, out ranging you opponent gives you first strike, and this game is designed to give the player with first stike victory. its the mechanics of the dial based system itself that assures range is king. its why charge used to rule, why arty used to rule, why vtols used to rule, and why anna does rule.

as for is she unbeatable? not at all. aside from rolling all critical misses or some other calamity, she can easily be outnumbered, is useless if dust storm is in play, and is a bit of a one trick pony- but its a good trick.

point for point I don't know of a better mech. infact, most larger mechs fail in comparison. she rules one on one mech fights, and I think she only gets better with the right support. with the wrong support, she can get hammered.

a few other people seem to have forgotten that special abilities from pilots cards only apply when the proper mech is used

while I am enjoying the debate, I have only heard a few mechs mentioned who can compete. if you think yours is the one, let me hear it.

as we play in very dense terrain - almost cityfight (half our board actually is a city) then any mech with Electronic camo will trump her. the other half, however is almost bare - so it depends wether you get the initiative as to where to fight as to whetehr she is good, or just a liability. under tournament conditions where you tailor the terrain to suit your army (never a good idea) I can see why she is very good. I for one think an Andrej Czupeck appearing in her rear arc would be a bit of a challenge - assault order of 11 agains 23 defence is a clallenge, especially if it happens before her sweet spot. no 'mech is undefeatable though, its all down to the dice. I tagged a BH in hindering the other day, twice, in successive turns with a SH thunder fox with a NAIS Pilot. Lucky, yes, but humbling for the person who thought it was unhittable.

same goes for kerensky.

This is very fun but... uhh... what were we talking about?

Seriously though I think we've pretty much figured it out. Until someone comes up with an pilot-mech combo that can trump Alphastasia 100% of the time, I think we've pretty much proven from all sides that they're a great duo.

But please... bring it on. Lots of baseless arguments still to be made! :knockedou

She is a good mech to be sure. But without a pilot out there to beef up her defense by +2 or more I'm not going to tremble in my boots if I see her hit the field. I WILL have fast infantry to tie her up. Sure ... I'll lose ALL of them by the end most likely ... but they will halt her from using Assault orders and thus tones-down her range advantage. I WILL have arty. Alpha is going to be warm one way or another ... either from swatting ATVs, or breaking from them, or trying to advance on my arty. And you can be sure plenty of blocking will be littering the field and odds are good I'm going to have something big with Streak to deal with anything that comes towards my end of the field .... with Perfect Day negating most all other PC cards that hit the table that try to take those buildings away.

Bottom line. Good? Certainly .. especially if the opponent is not prepared to deal with it. Unstoppable? No. I took out Caber/Tara with a single hit from arty, a few infantry and Catalina so even 23 defenses aren't necessarily all that and a bag of chips.

But then again ... WK might goof and produce some pilots and/or gear that makes her godly in the next set .... you never know. :)

Oh and Ralph .... I don't have one. :o I'm not buying a case this time around. I'd done spending $300-400 a pop on this game. I'm hitting the singles market and I'll see what I can get ... but I can't guarantee it will be an Alpha sitting on my end of the table when we face off. Maybe I can get my hands on that con-exclusive ...... hmmmmmm. That'd be an interesting matchup. heh :)

X-Axis - 124 points

Range 10 ballistic with 3 damage
Movement 10 inches with evade
Attack 10
Defense 21

Aaron Sanduval - 34 points
+1 move
+2 attack
+2 defense

Davion merc contract card - 15 points in 450 point game. Usuable in all situations unless there is a card that cancels merc contracts.
Now we have natural 23 from the start. Defense of 25 against ranged. No need for the special ability of Aaron since he cant use it.

We now have a mech that may not have the punch of Alpha but it has far superior defense with the same offense. Leaving Anastasia's best tactic to deal with this xaxis as a charge. All For less than the cost of Alpha alone. Use the difference in points to throw out a transport and one or two infantry and you now have the ability to stop the charge and you are now about the same cost.

I think X-Axis is the best mech for the points in the game. I am not saying Anastasia and alpha are push-overs but they arent queen of the battlefield either.

Range is good. Heck I have won a number of games because I can outrange my opponents with Jiyi or with my SC units but that doesnt mean they are unbeatable nor were they absolutely superior.

I still think Arnis Drummond can give Anastasia a run for her money.

topgun-
I have only got 13 boosters, so I was crazy happy just to get alpha, I'll have to mug someone for anna. all I really wanted was two ss thunder foxes and a handful of towed gausses, but I didn't get that either. still, wolvers are crazy powerful this set and the whole pilot thing screws my faction, so I'm durning over a new leaf. I always said wolves cost less and do more, if you know how to treat them right. I just wish sanduvol was a lot more like dian jameson- I'll miss her.

you should stop by and see our mech-risk game! its one of those weird ideas I had in motion, and its doubled my players! (well, used to be my players)