I agree with this point, though I am personally against non-comic related properties being used for VS. And by non-comic, I don't only mean those properties that never had it's own book, but also those that can't even be categorized as 'superhero' books. I realize that this may be "shortsighted" and may even prevent VS from gaining ground in the CCG market (though I doubt this is true). However, I play this game not only because of the excellent mechanics and strategy, but mainly because it IS a superhero card game. If it stopped being such, I would stop buying and just make due casually with my collection as is.

Perhaps I'm in the minority here, and maybe VS would grow by adding non-comic properties, but personally, I don't care. I don't want the "VS system" to grow. I want the "really really cool superhero card game called VS" to grow. Some people say people should still have fun no matter what characters your opponent plays with, be it TMNT, Transformers, or even Winnie the Pooh. But I wouldn't. It's the same reason why I buy video-games like Ultimate Alliance or Rise of the Imperfects even though they are basically carbon-copies of better games. Because they feature superheroes.

Anyway, I love the whole EC thing, and would even be cool with these being bumped up to two a year, but I think that's the extent of my open-mindedness on the subject. (Here's hoping for an Invincible EC sometime soon!)

Dayspring, I don't disagree with a single thing you said. In fact, as I stated before, not only am I personally against anything like a Fables set or a Sandman (Vertigo) set because those properties' characters and themes defeat the purpose of the game but I'm against even so much as a Watchmen set for the very same reason (not that DC would ever allow it, thankfully).

Like you, I'm saying that my personal preferences should not dictate what I think UDE's policy should be. A random EC will not dominate the game. As long as an IP decision enables UDE to keep pumping out superhero cards for me, I am for it, even if it does mean I'll play against the occasional Sliders/Doctor Who deck.

(There's something wrong with me for arguing about a scenario that is entirely hypothetical.)

This is where the argument is on different footing then.

The primary reason that we're expressing the problems with the concept is to point out that it isn't the best way to help the game. These boards are a major source of player feedback, and we're simply saying "No, this isn't the best way to help the game."

We're just arguing in a different tense. You seem to be arguing in the present tense "people shouldn't quit over this", and we're arguing in the future tense "UDE shouldn't do this because people may quit over it, it won't hold as many people as it will lose, it won't even hold as many people as simply a better chosen EC (see WaKo's post), etc.".

So when it comes to what we're really talking about, what UDE should do and what UDE shouldn't do, I'm not sure where we're in disagreement.

EDIT: Or, if I'm being "shortsighted" and only seeing the core intent of the argument from my perspective and not yours, it may make you feel better to know that as far I can tell, none of us are telling people that they should quit the game ... ever. We're just talking about what UDE should and shouldn't do.

Or, to put it even more bluntly, the best way to "save" Vs. is to basically scrap the current game and start over with a game that is more likely to succeed.

However, at that point, it's not "saving" Vs. ... it's making a game that is more succesful than Vs.

However ... the thing is that, just as there are people that are dead set against mixing their Super Heroes with say ... Sandman ... there are probably just as many Sandman fans that, while they might pick up the EC ... wouldn't want to play with flashy superheroes running around in tights.

Incompatible properties work both ways ... while the personal preference of not wanthing them mixed shouldn't be an issue on a LOW level ... if you have enough existing players that don't like the idea ... and you can reasonably expect that the people interested in the EC are probably NOT going to be interested in the regular sets ... than it's probably not a sound investment.

As for the changing of the Marvel/DC set rotation and adding properties to the set rotation instead of just the ECs ... I don't believe it would be possible.

It wouldn't be a comic book company ... no other one could 'keep up' with Marvel or DC. Also, the nature of the liscense that ensures DC and Marvel the same number of sets probably also makes an 'off' set difficult to negociate.

Assuming they can find one liscensee with a rich enough character/team base to be able to bring them in, and they can afford to do it, and DC and Marvel don't object, etc, etc, etc ... then they'd probably go to the 3 set release of DC, Marvel, Liscence X. You'd still want enough cross over appeal that many of the people drawn to Liscence X and start playing as a result would at least TRY the DC/Marvel brands, etc ...

So that's what "IP" really means? I learn something new every day.

I am so thoroughly amused by the fanboy passion that floods the forums whenever we start this conversation. Well, "flood" is a bit of hyperbole, since we usually get three people at the most who say they would quit if UDE makes a Power Puff Girls Essential Collection.

Which might not be such a bad idea now that you mention it...

I swing my Blossom into your Doom FTW!

:tired: At least they're superheroes.

And I bet that there would be a ton of young girls that pick up the EC, and get hooked on the cardboard smack and start picking up packs of DC Legends to be able to play with Superman and Bubbles for the big team attack.

Who will quit is irrelevant as, ultimately, anyone that is POSTING probably cares way too much about the game to actually quit.

It's more the players we haven't met yet.

Try to get teenage boy to start playing Vs. the super hero beat 'em up.

"Isn't that the game with Power Puff Girls in it?"

And of course, there is the whole hurdle of having an 'out there' EC that might hit an audience that would otherwise never be exposed to Vs. ... but then you have to actually RETAIN them. Get a one time 'bump' in sales for an EC doesn't actually mean there are more people playing and purchasing Vs. If they buy ONLY the EC and play ONLY the EC ... that's a blip on the radar.

You have to transition them from the EC, to the whole wide world of Vs.

Going with properties that are more 'synergistic' but also have a broader appeal would be a good idea.

Essentially, if a non-DC/Marvel superhero-esque genre film comes out, having an EC to go along with it is good. Hellboy was great in that respect ... even people that never bought a comic had a chance to find out about Hellboy via the movie and the cartoon, etc.

If UDE can figure out a way to translate the property into an EC and the EC should have a big enough target audience that happens to have a heavy overlap of people that would be interested in a game with Superman, Batman, Wolverine and Spider-Man in it ... that's a good property.

On THAT tangent ... Turtles and Transformers MIGHT fit ... the Transformers at least have two clearly defined teams with enough members to fill out an EC ... with varying power leves. The 'giant robot' and 'transforming into vehicles' concepts may not translate well, but they could be made.

In the case of the Turtles, it may be harder to fill out 'full' teams but they are definately in the superhero genre.

Not really, since they can still market it as "compatible with DC and Marvel Trading Card Game."

And just conveniently leave out "that we no longer produce cards for." ;)

I'm not talking about LITERALLY eliminating the older cards ... I'm talking more about the concept being "a game based on Marvel and DC can't work ... let's just stop making that and make something else".

If the way to save Vs. is to change it into something ENTIRELY different to the point of the same only mechanically and in name ... well, is it even the game we are trying to save anymore?

Shockingly enough ... some people buy Vs. BECAUSE it features DC and Marvel characters, as opposed to buying IN SPITE of it.

And there are those of us who buy VS because it is the best card game we have ever played, and would like to have the game(VS System, not Marvel or DC Trading Card Game) to survive no matter what the cost. UDE would have to choose between us who played the game for the sake of the game, and the comic book fans.

what you just said changed my opinion of TMNT in VS. Now I'm all for it. It would be flavorfull with the movie coming out (by the time development and licinsing issues are delt with, the movie'd be coming out on DVD)

What I'd like to see are alternate formats that only use alternative engines (like an EC only PC)

OMG. An EC-only PC??? Dude, that is one of the raddest ideas I have ever heard.

Damn that would be cool.