There's not a single damage reducer on the new Cap. Base him, and he's far less effective. He gets CCE end-dial, but he's also naked and short-dialed at that point.

I won't argue that's he am more effective piece, but that's design and choice of options, not a formula issue. Both those other Caps have IMP on one or two clicks, an expensive power.

And we've known long long ago that the by the formula, stats are cheaper than powers.

I do the same thing! I though I was the only one.

It's most likely that The point calculator deliberately factors in Power Creep.

A few points, on this and on other things you have said...

1) NECA didn't put out the FF rules. Yeah, we all know that what we have in HoT was pretty much what Wizkids was going to give us, but you can't point the finger at NECA when using old Wizkids stuff.

2) M-11 is 59 points. 8 of them are 472 points, so you would get 5 actions/turn. I would expect them to tear up a lone Superman Prime. You out-action him and out-point him. So how would 5 M-11s do against a lone Prime? How would Prime do with another 150 points of support?

3) If you "dominate" players now using older figures, then nothing has changed. You can't type here how 1337 your skills are and then in the same breath talk about how it's all about the dials. If you are winning games using IC and HT figures against those from SI, Crisis, and Arkham, then HoT won't change things that dramatically. The AW and CD figures should do just fine.

You are being inconsistent in your views and applying different rules to different scenarios.

All that being said, HoT does appear to have moved the game to a different plateau. I hope that NECA will try and hold the game here for a while.
If that makes some older figures obsolete, then they are welcome to the club, as there are already many of them in that group, but making some specific underperforming figures from some sets obsolete isn't the same as saying that anything more than three sets old is pretty much worthless now in terms of trying to win games.

Power creep can work like stealth re-launches, and sometimes it isn't that stealthy.
What difference does it make to me if Heroclix goes on for another 5 years if every year the power levels shift to make anything from last year or older obsolete? I am no better off in terms of having a collection of game pieces than I would be if I played heroclix one year, Superclix the next year, and Powerclix the year after that.
The only thing that the compatibility offers me is that I can select from a larger pool, but if I actually want to have a shot at winning, then I had better pick from a very small subsection of that pool, and that is a false choice.

I don't think the power creep was nearly as bad as it could have been. The playtest dials were grossly overpowered but fortunately most of them were toned down. I actually don't think this set is that much more powerful than other recent sets. Oh and I think M-11 is getting way too much love. Yes he's efficient... yes he has great stats... but he has no move and attack, no damage reducers and a fairly short range. On top of that if you play a swarm of them you're only going to have 6 objects (and most likely 3) to use your Super Strength with. I think he's a good figure but I'm not sure a bunch of them could stand up to a well constructed team of equal points.

Yeah, but because the way his Special Power is worded, he can throw his shield throw elevated terrain. Hide him behind a building where no one can get him, and throw his shield. His special power, the way it is worded, is totally broken. It needs an errata desperately. That right there makes him worth 200 points.

With every new set comes this thread.

Sure, there's some really great characters in this set, thor, odin, ultron, even that Stupid Frog is good, and there's the characters that are GREAT. Balder is one of them, M-11. And Ulik is just WAY overpowered. But it happens EVERY SET!!! Remember Skrull Ms. Marvel? Yeah. I rest my case.

You've had to base certain characters to hit them for ages now, it's called stealth.

Also not the first character who can shoot from outside of hiding into, that'd be V Ultimate scarlet witch (fantastic Forces).

Also with a 21 defense in cover you'd have to base him anyway to get a real chance of hitting him.

Well, I disagree. That's useful (I used it yesterday to win in sealed) but it's not broken. You just have to go after him with a flyer and get close. Way worse is Susan Richards, who shoots through *any* walls and does more damage. Cap's three damage is also a limiting factor.

I don't think AA or SI brought much power creep.


There were 1-2 pieces in each set that were really good, but nothing game breaking.


We have figures that have 4 clicks of Impervious and 3 clicks of Invulerability, with Charge and 11AV for 130 points, its just silly.

Have you actually played the new cap or are you just Theoryclixing here?

I shut odin down with him, he has an effective range of 13 and will almost always find a way to hit you without a line of site.


the only way to deal with him is to win map roll and chose arkham.

but that is just to make the fight fair...

Base him. I fail to see anything difficult about this. Once he's based he falls fairly easily.

use one of those 11 attack figs with charge for 130 points you were talking about.. 18-11=7 witch is an avge roll for 2 6 sided dice...i dont see the difficulty either.

actually your probably best bet is Venom (whose roughly the same point cost.)

Sure he needs a 9 to attack (~28% chance of landing a Hit), but cap has only a ~25% chance of hitting Venom once Shape change and Supersenses are accounted for. Even if Cap does manage to land a blow venom stays roughly the same and can still one hit Cap.

Don't get me wrong, Cap is amazing, but not unbeatable.

I think Rocket Raccoon could even take him. Cap has a 22% chance of dealing damage to RR and RR has a 52% chance of damaging Cap.

for an older piece try Longshot. Cap has about an 8% chance of hitting to longshot's 64% chance of hitting.

I whole heartedly agree. In fact there I would dare to say this set was actually a little scaled back in power compared to Crisis.

Though, I do hope that things stay around this level and do not go beyond in future sets.