Those weren't Vanilla games. The games I've run, aren't Vanilla games. The only Vanilla game that was ever run, was the very first one.

"Vanilla Mafia" sells a lot better than "Themeless Mafia", which is what it is.

Then your answer was ridiculous and condescending. I think it is quite obvious the question was in regards to the Vanilla games that pop up on HCR, which are not what you call "Vanilla". But it is what the other 98% of the community call it.

If a game starts out, and the mod says "There is a Doctor, Cop, And
Tracker, and that's it"... Sure, go ahead and out yourself if you want. But most games don't do that, and if they do, it's probably Something Different anyway.

I find outing oneself like that selfish because that means the Doctor knows who to target, and the Mafia knows who not to kill for a few nights, as they WILL be doctored.

I read this as you asking me to run a Vanilla game with no cop...

Or rather, for you to run one because I want to play in it

Okay, in that case, I'm still right, because the two mods that have modded those games (I'm one of them, btw), have changed up the few roles that they include each time. The RB didn't appear in the first 4. While there's a chance the RB will appear, the risk is negligible compared to the risk of losing your cop early. Again, I've modded these, three times. The town loses without the cop.

Except that's exactly how the first Vanilla game started.

That makes no sense, at all. They're selfish because they make a smart play, that everyone else will agree with. What bastards.

Not unless we want to see people get banned from the forum....

My problem with HCR mafia exactly.

You NEED a cop to win. You NEED definitive info to win. You NEED roleclaims to win.

No. You need posts, voting history, and a little luck. Anything else is gravy.

I don't think anyone's saying that you do absolutely need those things to win. We all know full well that games have been won without them. Disregarding their usefulness, however, is something else entirely.

In a pure Vanilla game, if the cop dies on Night 1, you are going to have a really bad town game. It's just that simple. If for no other reason than because we all know that participation does a skydive when there's nothing to share anymore.

In a real Vanilla gmae if the Cop is randomly nightkilled early, no one would know the dead townie was a cop and hte threat of a cop should prove sufficient enough ot keep conversation going.

Yeah, I don't buy that. Not sure why you're trying to sell it.

Not true at all. In a Vanilla game, the cop's existence is to throw the town a bone when things are slowing down. A vanilla game is back to basics, which is analyzing individuals' posts and voting records.

A vanilla game's simplicity is designed so the entirety of those two things should be the focus of being absorbed.

I don't know.

Every time this "A cop is needed" argument is thrown around, my mind always goes back to Vanilla V. That game pretty much proved how unneeded a cop's info really is when you can generate discussion to work with instead.

Not quite true, as can be seen in DUE TIME.

EDIT

This I agree with completely.

This I do not. The threat of a doctor keep the mafia second guessing their kills. The threat of a cop is irrelevant. There's nothing a vanilla mafia can do to stop themselves from being copped aside from the content of their posts. The "threat" of a cop doesn't exist until the cop roleclaims. Case in point. One of the vanilla games (The one where MSU was our don IIRC), I got Grinner, the cop, lynched on day 1 before he could claim. We didn't know he was the cop until the end, but it didn't affect our actions one bit since our only ability was a kill, and there was nothing we could have done to stop the cop anyway.

You're quoting me as agreeing with a post I didn't agree to. vote: Get_1

Don't talk about current games. I'm sure there will be plenty to say when the game ends.