Mad rep to you for that one. I'll be ordering a dozen.....

Shoot I think I just amended my rules to "play nice or you both get unicorns"

Actually it kinda is. I spent $120 on dice that were hand crafted D&D prototypes from Gary Gygax's personal estate at GenCon last year. I like to play them from time to time in games. I'll be hard pressed to lend them to someone I don't know. If I do something to them or lose one, its on me. If you lose or damage one of them, are you going to replace the irreplacable set?

They are my dice. If I choose not to let you use them, that is my perogative.

Bah, that just means the dice are good and sterilized!

1) That's a real corner case.

2)Hand crafted dice? Doesn't sound like something that would roll true. I don't know from dice, but it just doesn't sound right to me. Seems like a compelling reason for you opponent to want to swap.

3) Wouldn't it be on you not to use them if you knew the rule was that the other player could use your dice?

4) In years of playing games, I have never seen anyone damage a die through normal use (protip: there is no normal use that involves fire). Losing them is another story entirely. I think my FLGS eats them.

I just think that the "opponent can use your dice" rule is the best curb on rigged dice (which I think are a vastly overstated problem in their own right), and it's rare enough that refusal would just look shady.

heres a question. Is using two different dice taboo? I got one mechwarrior dice and one small black one i like to use. They roll fairly well most of the time. Id use two mechwarrrior ones if i could find the other.

But does anyone care if they dont match?

Not where I play. I don't like the nested ones, and the really big ones are just asking for trouble, but other than that as long as we can figure out what the roll is we're all pretty much OK.

I had a guy using a dice boot once. Another player player informed me afterward that the boot guy requested to roll one die on the map and one on the boot. The other guy said no, either both on he map or both in the boot. Apparently the boot guy didn't press the issue as I wasn't called over. (I'd have ruled the both get rolled together.)

Maybe I should expound on the situation. First of all this was a custom pair of JLA six siders that I paid a good price for. Second, I was never accused of cheating, if I was, I would have gladly rolled them a few times for the judge to see. Third, the other player was not very hygene friendly. He had grease or body oil all over HIS figures, character cards, etc. and smelled foul. Fourth, he had his set of dice in front of him, he just thought mine were “cool.” I even offered to give him a set of HC starter set dice, but he wanted to play with this particular set.

E-roc and I had this discussion at our venue. I also that that there was something at one time in the rules that said this. I remember being in another title thread discussing this same thing. I'll let people hand my dice back to me when they launch off the table, it happens a lot because I actually roll them but I'll absolutely refuse to let you use them...

I disagree. There are reasons to not want other people to use your dice, particularly if the other person has poor hygiene, or is sick, or you have some kind of ocd issue. Not that these necessarily come up all the time, but there ARE reasons. And I don't think it's fair to dq someone for that, unless it was specifically addressed beforehand that it's done that way at this particular venue. As was pointed out before, there's nothing in the official rules that says one has to let an opponent use one's dice, so I would think of it as being like a house rule in that all players should be aware of it before the event starts. If that's the case, and someone gets DQ'ed for it, fine, but if isn't common knowledge, I think there really has to be SIGNIFICANT evidence that a player is cheating before a dq is warranted.

And I'm the judge running the event. If I explain how things work in this venue, if I choose to enforce that, that is my perogative.

I'll add that they are hand-crafted prototype dice. Another strike against me wanting to play against them.

Again, like I said before, I'd want to see those dice roll a few times before I made a judgement, but the long and short of it is that I'm not going to let a situation of "I think those dice are loaded" interfere with the game when there are easy solutions.

For this situation, maybe I'd say "fine - SWTony is now responsible for everyone's rolls". Now you get to keep your hands on your $120 dice and the dice roll for everyone. Just as fair. Or I'd hand SWTony another pair of dice and say, "for this event, please use these."

This is why I'm not in favor of a "rule" that says you have to share dice. If an opponent calls me over and says "those are cool dice I wanna play with them too" I'm gonna smack him (not literally) and send him back to his game.

This gets thrown out there a lot. OCD is a real thing. I've got it and there are certain things I have to do in order to feel comfortable most of the time. That said, the cases where one is absolutely paralyzed and cannot continue because of something (hygiene related or otherwise) is actually pretty rare. I get past OCD issues all the time to do this - whattayacallit, oh yeah - living in society thing I've heard so many good things about.

If your OCD is such that you cannot tolerate someone touching your dice - but you're perfectly fine attending an event, sitting in chairs that other have sat in earlier that day, playing on maps that others were using earlier that event, I call it into question. Logic dictates that if you can get past issues for some things, then the dice alone should not be the issue that paralyzes you. And if it doesn't paralyze you, then reasonable workarounds mean that OCD ain't the reason in play for refusing.

As the judge, I'll DQ you for anything reasonable, especially when it's something that, if it is an issue, in my mind, falls into the category of cheating. I do not need a rule to list every potential form of cheating. Note the stuff above where I see that there are reasonable explanations, like these dice cost me a lot. But again, if you're not going to take my solutions, then you're DQ'd, no question.

I'd love to see the list at your venue since I know your judge. Does it include things like "don't intimidate other players," "no shortclicking," "no replacing dials on figures?"

If the dice are crooked, I don't need to give you a warning to DQ you. If you're doing anything that is a deliberate act of cheating, I'm not going to warn you that you're a bad boy. I'm going to evict you from the event.

I think Norm's hit it pretty well. "His dice are cool, make him let me use them too" is absurd, and I'd question the common sense of any judge who backed up that kind of nonsense. "His dice are rolling suspiciously well" is a different issue, and there are a number of solutions which include some variant of "then you both use those." If your dice have been called into question your options are to comply with my (the judge's) solution or be DQ'd. if there's something unreasonable about that I fail to see it.

I also completely agree that every specific need not be spelled out to be an enforceable rule: that just begs trouble. "The judge has discretion" is adequate to cover a lot of seldom-seen issues.

[quote=nbperp;5282650]
This is why I'm not in favor of a "rule" that says you have to share dice. If an opponent calls me over and says "those are cool dice I wanna play with them too" I'm gonna smack him (not literally) and send him back to his game.
QUOTE]

Just to clarify, I wasn't saying that it NEVER calls for a dq, I just disagree with people saying it should be an AUTOMATIC dq for not wanting someone to roll your dice. There are plenty of other solutions, such as what you said about just telling the person in question to roll a different pair of dice. And of course there is a difference between someone having a justifiable reason for not wanting the other player to handle them and it being a deliberate act of cheating. I just don't think the situation should play out like this:
Player 1: Those are cool dice, can I use them?
Player 2: I'd rather not, because these are expensive custom dice. But if you don't want me using them either, I can use a different set of dice.
Player 1: Judge, he won't let me use his dice!
Judge: That's an automatic DQ!

Now, if the issue is that player 2 hasn't rolled below an 8 all game and player 1 has a good reason to believe that his dice are weighted, then that's a completely different thing, and in that case I could see a DQ being justified even without a warning.