I'd argue that the character doesn't even have to be 100 points to make it useless. A 300 point 4 man team doesn't need multiple instances of the TA, and then there's the fact that Avengers and JLA have quite a few great fliers which has nearly the same end result but results in fewer action tokens on your team.

Im with yall as well because I know any character can take advantage of the change. However, I feel like the new alphaclix were a major tease with the team ability right before they changed it.

Would have been awesome of they gave you a choice at the beginning of the game like they did with the marvel knights team trait (wildcard or attack always over 10). Hopefully we have not seen the last of the avengers founding member trait.

I'd say not make it either/or. Just let it have both abilities, as was done when SHIELD got the range bump with the Sinister PAC.

YES! Good times lol

What if it gave you the choice?:

Avengers.
When this character is given a MOVE action choose: a) this doesn't count towards you allotted actions or b) modify speed by +1

No, this is what I had in mind:

Avengers: At the beginning of the game, for all characters with this team ability, choose one: move actions don't count towards your action total or modify speed by +1

+1 speed all game? Too good.

Sorry, I meant what the ta is meant to do now, with a move action. The point was to say at the beginning of the game, you can choose the old TA or the new one. Exactly like what the marvel knights trait does with being a wild card or having attack be a 10 or higher. (See any marvel knight figure from ADW)

Hmmm...I dunno. I really like that when my characters are in position or need to just move away, they can do that for free. If it worked for things like running shot and charge, it'll be cool. Since its only useful to run away or for a taxi, I find it pretty limiting.

I'm kinda scared for what will happen to the Masters of Evil TA now. Hopefully syndicate won't change much either considering Superior foes.

I wouldn't worry about them fiddling much if at all with most TAs, just the weak ones often complained about.

The problem with that? The Avengers/JLA TA has went from being one of the best to arguably the the worst! Consider that even before the era of small dial design beginning with UXM that there were One Hundred and Thirty Nine clix under 65 points with the Avengers keyword. Get that? 139!!! Granted many of them were not great, but there were a lot of under appreciated pieces in those ranks. It is fairly easy to make a credible 300 pt team with at least 5 figs. Although I concede I prefer to play with higher point teams making this point even easier to see. I mean for turn one I could take 5 actions so long as I had at least 2 with the Avengers AT and have my hitter in position to attack (with Indom/willpower) with passive support like perplex, PC and outwit also ready. My average opponent would not be equally ready for another turn at least, giving me a significant advantage.

With the new AT? For me at least, I move my full movement maybe somewhere between 1/5 and 1/4 of the time. And MAYBE 1/4 of THOSE TIMES DOES IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL! After all, I am not going to leave my fig out in the open when I can have him protected by a wall, HT or a change in elevation. I dare say there MIGHT be once or twice a game where I need just one more square of movement to have any kind of significant impact. And of course the TA doesn't help at all if I need it when doing a RS or charge.

Bottom line? The TA costs something, what is the exact cost? Who knows exactly, but it's reasonable to say something along the lines of 3-5 points. Knowing this and just how rarely it will make ANY difference at all, given my druthers and the option, I would delete the cost of it off every figure, not use it to get enough points to run a symbiote or generic piece of equipment that would be MUCH, MUCH more likely to influence the game in my favor. In my opinion the new team ability MIGHT be worth 1 pt/clix, but even that is stretching it.

Thus by my math the new TA = poo

The original avengers/jla/bom ta was never considered great, let alone "the best." On most pieces in the game with it, it's useless. On most of the ones in which it wasn't useless, the dials themselves weren't worth playing anymore.

The change to avengers/jla is better. It does something now. And the change to bom is really good

Soooooo much wrong with this post (rolls sleeves up to get started). First up I never said it was the "best", but one of the best. Most people would say Mystics, Power Cosmic and Quientessence are the top 3, and I would agree. Avengers is on the next tier below them alongside Outsiders and Batman Family. And like those two you need to be smart as you are building your team, being intelligent in how you integrate the TA into your tactics and choosing a good map to maximize your advantage with it. It is definitely more subtle and nuanced than BF for instance, but very effective when done right. I realize there are a lot of people here with a decade more experience playing clix more than me. However, the Avengers is "my" faction, I love playing it more than any other so I feel a huge degree of confidence in saying the old TA criminally under estimated.

I have built 500 point Avengers swarm teams with 10+ clix and given 100% of them move or power actions for at least the first 2 turns of the game. You understand that? You take 5 actions, I take 10, you take 5 more, I take another 10.

There three types of players that don't see a huge advantage in power projection and mobility that an Avengers team can have. 1) an inexperienced one. 2) one that doesn't play them themselves or seen the Avengers played well utilizing their TA
3) I'll be kind here not describe the obvious third category

As to the TA being a "waste" on dials over 100 points, well that is just silly. It goes back to how your team is built and how you use it, not which dials actually have the TA. It is important to make sure that whenever a clix with the TA is making a move action that you declare it as a free one. It doesn't matter if it's a 300 pt Iron Man or Jarvis that utilizes it so long as you maximize your free actions every turn. On every one of my teams I have 1-2 figs that you would say having it was a "waste" that get at least 2 free moves every game.

As to the supposition that the new TA is better......really?!? Did you read NONE of my previous post? If you really believe this makes things more than low scale fractionally better than obliterating the TA altogether?!? If you want to prove me wrong the next 10 games you play keep track of the total number of move actions, not power-move actions like HSS, RS, charge, etc. you make. Followed by the maximized moves you make along with the number of times that the max move actually allowed you to make significant difference. For example if that one extra move allowed you to "just" get out of sniping range, get past a choke point, reach a superior firing position in one turn instead of two, etc. There is a much higher number of power actions taken throughout a match vs. Move actions. Thus I concede the old TA's utility was largely seen in the jockeying for map position in the first two turns, but not completely. The new TA's usefulness truthfully comes up in unusual situations once, maybe twice a game.

Bottom line do you conservatively do yo want 6-8 extra moves a game that confers superior positioning (and logically frees up actions for earlier attacks) or would you prefer once or twice a game getting that odd case of making it one additional square.

Like I said before, right now if anyone I am playing gives me the option to delete my TA to get 2 pts/fig with it I will do it EVERY time. Bottom line

Darkheart, you are the first person I have ever seen say that the Avengers/JLA/Brotherhood TA belongs up there. Sure it has had its uses... but they were few and far between.

I think I used it the most on the first turn. Move out my whole team. After that, I pretty much never needed the extra actions... at least for MOVE.

I think you're letting your Avengers fandom influence your opinion.

Historically Avengers have it so much better than BLA & BoM because they have so many more clix in the economy range, especially in the last 2 years. I 'm not exaggerating when i say i can build a 500 pt Avengers team with 14-15 clix and take 11 actions for the first two turns each with the TA, indom/willpower and leadership. Granted, that is built with the goal of maximizing the old TA. But I love seeing the look on the other guy's face when you move that much of your force that early is priceless.

And I also concede that I love tweaking my Avengers teams more than any others. However ask yourself this? If the WK playtesters and rules jockeys didn't see OP bloat with the preponderance of >50 pt. dials and those ATs combining why did they see the need to tweak them?