meh, I was wrong. Not like it mattered considering everyone is teamed up anyway.

rules question:
would nega-bomb count the characters recruited while nenora is in play if those characters are not teamed up via an actual team-up?

So what your all suggesting is that we ban a one drop character from a new set because she enables a broken combo. Ok im all good for that but lets stop and think for a second;

Ude has always stated that they try to ban the engine in the combo, not just what the best possible card may be. The perfect example of this is the go down fighting + tommy combo. Instead of banning the free character that has an easy free recruit they banned go down fighting, a card that if the deck didnt have there was no POSSIBLE way to pull it off.

So instead of banning the one drop, who after doctor light got banned, lost alot of her effectiveness (i know alot of you think she didnt but the truth is she did) ban the card that has been an engine for multiple combos.

so ban attend or die, without it how could you possible do this combo?

ok so im going to show you how an average curve deck, without doctor light, does with the franky phantom stranger combo:

on turn 4 lets say youve hit your curve and no one has been lost, you discard PS to recruit franky and then exhaust her and your other one drop to to return PS to discard him again allowing you to draw two cards. For arguements sack lets say your playing ivy, you now ko franky to get the slaughter swamp then discard to return franky. then redo the whole thing exhausting posion ivy instead of the one drop. So now you have drawn four cards from franky but at the cost of exhausting 3 characters as well as discarding for the swamp, and discarding for the second franky recruit cost. this is very similiar to what lost in space did but what alot of people dont understand is that this is really only super powerful if the deck is built around it. it adds consistancy to a deck but without using the citadel or devils due your never going to use it more then twice a turn. the perfect example is Prozaks PC winning deck.

No, we're suggesting that Frankie be banned because she's going to enable broken comboes in future.

The Nega-Bomb deck works because you're guaranteed to see Attend or Die, Nega-Bomb, and multiple copies of Remnant Fleet by turn four. The reason you're guaranteed to see them is because of Frankie Raye and her ridiculous amount of card cycle. Nobody's really worried to the same extent about other free-with-discard characters. This deck with Rick Jones or Ra's Al Ghul <> Leland McCauley doesn't work, because you simply can't guarantee you'll draw the cards. But with Frankie, you can, because with Frankie you're capable of drawing through half your deck by turn 4 - and that's without even trying hard.

And the point is, if you ban Attend or Die! (and honestly, if they're going to continue printing free characters with every set, it'll probably become necessary sooner or later), it nerfs this deck, but it won't nerf the next broken deck Frankie enables by virtue of her ridiculous draw power.

I may just be a random aussie scrub, but i have to say that when i see these kinds of decks i hope like hell that frankie gets the chop. I have no team to test with, i barely have a hobby league but i do plan to attend pc sydney. I really don't want my first major vs event to be defined by frankie ray + phantom stranger + poison ivy + negabomb = deck. I got into vs because of how fun it was seeing aunt may savagely beating the thing. Is this really going to be a non-combat PC?

So what are you guys advocating get the ban-hammer? It seems like: Frankie and Attend or Die are the biggest culprits.

At the end of the combo, there are still going to be some characters in play [i.e. Nenora and Frankie by what is said]. Considering that Negabomb removes them from the GAME this could make it a bit harder for them to pull the combo off each turn you'd also lose your Ivy and any other characters you had in play [not big a deal, admitedly]. However, you do need to hit all your team ups by the end of 3 to be able to pull it off on 4 as it was listed here ...

The combo is particularly dependent on discard effects 'feeding' Attend or Die to get around it's drawback ... it's causing Attend or Die to be used in a way it was not intended ... similar to an older variant of the Tommy + Go Down Fighting combo which got the rules changed so that characters KO'd from the resource row would still be counted for it's removal effect. They could errata the card further and have it remove any character card put in the KO pile during the course of the recruit step.

In this particular combo ... Attend or Die is being used in a way it was never intended ... Frankie makes it works better than any other free character, true ... however the AoD is the thing that is doing something out of the ordinary. It may be a Light Show situation [i.e. they errata Rama Tut because that is the card not working as it should ... but eventually Dr. Light gets banned].

Last year's results had Alfred as the best one-drop character of all time in the annual Curve of Death vote. If Frankie gets nuked before July 4, she won't be eligible for the ballot.

Just saying.

In all seriousness, she is really really really good in almost everything. I am playing her at the Orlando FX PCQ in something that no one has mentioned yet. Nuking Attend or Die would stop the currently spoiled Kree madness, but she will still burn up the PC in other configurations if she is allowed to continue with her youthful optimism. Personally, I am strongly neutral on the need to nuke... but I completely understand the outcry.

No wonder chdb is so gung ho about getting her banned. He wants to crush youthful optimism!

Try the veal ...

I dont believe Attend or Die is the problem because people will just find another way to break her

Drop the Ban Hammer on Frankie Ray!

Question: To fix the problem, should one ban the free/broken low drops or ban the cards that give the win condition/broken effect?

wow is that stu agreeing with us on a subject?

I think the problem is the Free Broken Drops because like I said people will just keep finding ways to abuse her

Of course. You guys always try to paint me with a big brush, but I decide fresh for myself on each new issue. And I always speak my mind as frankly as possible. When you disagree with me you scream apple polisher like a bunch of knee jerk addicts, but my opinions are always genuine.

In this case she is Skullclamp. Even so, I am still neutral on the neccessity of the nuke... maybe she should be left alone to enable quicker games. Maybe not.

HOW?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!
the most i have seen from this is using frankie 2 times in a turn and to do so you have discarded 4 cards and drawn 4 cards -- even if one of the discards is PS7 thats still 3 discards and 3 or 4 characters exhausted

fixes?
PS7 require 2 JSA printed characters be exhausted to get him back
IVY remove from game instead of ko
GAME CHANGE - max of 1 free recruit per build phase

Why hasn't UDE reached out to these diabolic deckbuilders and put them on R & D?!?!?!

Now we have to pack 4 Political Pressures in every deck until something gets done. I told my friend about it this morning, and he's refusing to go to the PCQ because he knows it'll be another Light Show.

It has an effect on al levels of competition.

Though teaming up Shadowpact and Future Foes to have access to Conclave and Earth Enslaved and Null Time Zone is pretty cool.

CC