if you want to drop 24 bucks on a failed grinder mutiple times and see yourself go broke without getting into worlds, i believe that's fair.

also, it allows for less skilled players who had medium pulls get further in the grinder when a "professional" pulls a "sub-par" booster.

i find it a waste of effort and money to just drop before you play it out,personally.

-RmL

If grinders were not limited, I'd agree.

However, the "rules" were set up so that players did not need to spend "all day" qualifying for worlds, but could play in a grinder anytime thursday or friday, even evening-late night.


But with limited product, that isnt possible. The events will be sold out and evening players wont be able to play in a grinder.

Some people planned their Gencon schedules in advance based upon what the event description stated. If evening players are now left out, its not fair.

Its true that Gencon will have plenty of people paying for multiple grinders. But those who already planned to play in the evening wont get that chance if the product is limited and no restrictions are in place.

As a person that has designs on going, I'm very interested to see how this plays out number-wise. 24 a pop is nothing to sneeze at. Time is precious on Thrs, Fri. I want my shot(s).

I for one dropped out almost instantly when I pulled absolute junk in my first grinder at Origins on Thursday, 2 other players got WL Hal, WL Supes, Osiris, Isis, Wonder Woman around. Norm insisted that I at least stay for the matchups part of it. I sat down at the table, and shook my opponent's hand, told him "I concede" and he won. I then went to sign up for another one.

Now, at Origins, Friday's first 4 grinders filled up quick (Cramcompany, Tim Bold, George all in the same one!). I was in the 5th one, which I dropped from (above), then just got into the 7th (last one).

I feel the DC75 is a VERY balanced set - there's a lot of combinations that can win (moreso even without Krakoa). There's a few pulls that aren't competitive. For 2 DC75 boosters, a lot comes down to dice rolls (and some skill). DC75 + Captain America, who can say until we see all dials and combos.

I made it to the finals of that 7th grinder, losing by the barest of margins. My dropout was totally the right things to do - I probably would not have been able to play *any* other grinder if I didn't do that.

I didn't have a lot of DC75 before Origins - I'm still missing some SRs (and nieces and nephews who like getting my free extra figs!), so the entry cost for boosters isn't a big deal to me. So I'm going to try to play as many as I can to get in. I ended up paying for 5 grinders. Those 2 on Thursday, 2 on Friday, and raffled-off one on Sat morning. I ended up in another final on Friday, also losing, although this time by much more. There were others that played in 4 or 5.

In theory I don't like grinders, although they probably give me a better chance to get in since I'm willing to pay-to-play. I mean, who in heroclix hasn't wanted a "re pull!" in a sealed tourney? This is like the ultimate version of that. I would just have a bad day if it was like last year's tourney and Day 1 was sealed and I pulled bad - that's just a whole day of being mopey. Then the Floor is when I'd have to go undefeated. That's a lot harder.

...and those pieces more than likely made up 50% or more of their builds.

I've seen a team of mr teriffic and johnny quick beat out a WL Supes in dc75th 300 sealed....

As one of the better players out there, i would think you could just outplay a good brick piece in dc75th sealed. That's what makes good players good instead of saying oh well, it's just another 24 bucks, you stay in and outplay people and don't make excuses for why you didn't win, or why you were "throwing it so the better players didn't make it in" whatever that means.

-RmL

Mr. Terrific + Johnny Quick is a great pair of figs.

Pick the "bottom" 10 pieces in DC75, that was my pull. I kid you not. BUT the big problem was Krakoa. That is 1 reason that Ganthet teams did OK - he picks that map and a 2xJohnny Quick, etc team loses both those figs before even getting across the board.

Oh - I've got Ragdoll and Saint Walker! I'm awesome. Krakoa rolls are 1,3,4,4,6,4. I lose.

I feel like I can outplay brick pieces and other players somewhat. But I can't outplay a map.

Well, who knows what map you may have gotten.

I finished fifth last year in worlds sealed with Atom/hawkman, Inertia and Pawn 502. So you dont need power figs to win necessarily.

But I dont think thats the issue. You should be able to drop, if you want. But not to the point of preventing others from playing.

As you said, you got into the *last* grinder by dropping out of your first match. That meant no one else could play that day. I do not want to see that happen at Gencon, when evening players were told they could play grinders till midnight. With limited product, that wont happen unless changes are made.

Hopefully there will be enough for everyone to play as much as they want. The interwebs has spoken. Make it so!

...or they could just make a "you drop from one, you forfeit any other chance today" policy. thus it would make it harder to qualify, which would make it better for people to try to win with sub-par pieces.

-RmL

Which is why this needs to be addressed now.

Norm gave conflicting info. Is it only 32 grinders? Or 64? Or is even 64 enough?

At 32 or even 64, they will NOT have enough product so that everyone who wants a grinder will get one Friday at 10 pm. Just wont happen. They will run out of product sooner or later.

The point is to make it fair beforehand, and not face the same situation as Origins.

As someone who will be at GenCon, I have to agree that I hope this is addressed now.

That might be a bit harsh. Making people play at least a full round and then only allowing the losing players to re-enter a new grinder seems like a better option.

That way a first round winning player cannot automatically drop after the first round if they do not like the looks of thier next match while first round losers do not have to sit thru 2 more rounds when they know they do not have a chance.

I have to ask since I was not privy to the actual running of events at Origins: Did everyone play thru all three rounds (if wanted) or was it basically a "single-elimination" event where the losers did not play at all after thier loss?

Going to agree with the Star Wars code.


I do not have a problem with losing and going to sign up for another grinder. I do have a problem with "throwing the match" without playing it through. And by that I mean a simple contest where you actually try to win with what you pull. You lose, you're out. And free to do what you will (included signing up for another grinder).

Basically single elimination in my pool. I think that was the norm.

Then you play bad and lose in 3-5 minutes.

No, if you want to force someone to actually try to win, then they must sit out for at least a full hour. So they try to win rather than lose in 5 minutes.