Ninja'd. I wanted to be the one that pointed that out too, seeing as how I wrote the article referred to in the second post. Oh well.

Why do you hope to see there? Wouldn't you be better off seeing everywhere? I hope you could see while you drive there, for example. And how could you respond here without sight? And do you game with an eye doctor there?

Yeah, you forgot the 'you' in 'see you there', had to take the setup for a joke, this thread can use some levity.

At least.

Eh, is anyone really all that concerned about Atlantis and Outlaws though? Especially since it convolutes the wording, and sets up its own potential exceptions and interactions.
Especially since there's no really great Atlantis figures on Marvel's side that's not in Golden Age (or close to it), same w/Marvel Outlaws. Oh sure, Namor's really good, but he's also expensive, and more points than Nightwing is, rendering some of Leadership useless to him.


I'm not saying someone probably can't make a #####ing Atlantis team w/this Nightwing, but it's not a dominant strategy compared to what's being fielded now.

Funnily enough, this errata doesn't prevent that, thanks to generic keywords. I can build a Martial Artist theme team using Nightcrawler, Wolverine, and/or Psylocke. Or Detective with Karima, Madrox (GSX), and Madrox (Sinister). Or Police with Karima, Bishop (M&M), and Bishop (MM Vet).

EDIT: Forgot to address Gandalf, who can be Mystical along with several versions of Juggernaut, Soulsword Wielder, and Magick.

It makes no more or less sense than generic keywords. Here's the valid argument: the original wording said so. Thanks for your valuable contribution to this thread.

And thanks for coming out Frankencastle.

I won't argue that, because I think the theme team mechanic in general is stupid.

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Hells to the yes!

Alright, now that's just funny.

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I highly doubt that this is a truly new account

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Seconded.

Also, while I cannot speak for Gandalf, the great thing about this Nightwing is that it completely captured the essence of the character. Nightwing is a natural-born leader, thanks in some part to the tactical training he received from Batman, and thanks in other parts to the values instilled in him from his parents. He's a better leader than Batman because he has no trouble trusting and relying on teammates. His decision to take the name of Nightwing pays equal respect to both of his mentors -- Batman, from whom he learned his physical and analytical skills, and Superman, from whom he learned his values and leadership qualities.

"A Leader on Any Team" captures his ability to contribute to the team dynamic in a myriad of different ways, without detracting from the previous group dynamic. He can serve as a leader in a cold, tactical sense (the Outsiders), or serve as the heart / emotional core of the team (Teen Titans; a role he arguably shares with Wonder Girl.) He can even do a mix of both. Even when you drop him in with a mismatched band of heroes, he naturally helps bring everyone together and puts them on the same page [JLA: The Obsidian Age].

But being a good leader doesn't always mean taking charge of a team; sometimes it means sharing leadership opportunities, or putting the team ahead of oneself. If Nightwing were to team-up with the X-Men, as long as they were fighting for similar goals, he would be able to drop into the team structure without breaking a sweat. Hell, he would play with them much better than, say, Wolverine did in his early days.

As mentioned in the post I quoted, whether or not he should have the Keyword or TA is irrelevant for this discussion -- he's capable of having both due to the way the power is still worded -- but whether or not he should contribute to the team bonus. As a good leader, he understands how team dynamics operate, and his disposition makes it quite easy to blend into relatively any team environment.

Should Wizkids restore team bonus functionality to Nightwing? I think so. I would be happy if they did it on a non-generic, DCU-only basis, if that's what they had to do. However, in a game that is not really universe-specific anymore (and hasn't been in a long, long time), which is based on a medium that regularly crosses universes, I think that his original piece, as originally worded, is perfectly appropriate. It's not like he was completely unfair in the first place. I don't really see what the problem is. He's efficient, yes, but not game-breaking or categorically unfair. To be honest, if balance was an issue, I would rather see him banned from Modern Age and have his previous functionality restored than to have a piece that is artificially hobbled by company mandate post-design.

Just going to point out again for people who didn't bother to read the last 57 pages (who would) that I still feel that Noh-Varr needs to be considered alongside Nightwing and Gandalf when you're discussing this stuff.

Betty and Veronica = New Duo Con Artist?