No.. just.. no. There's been orange confirmation this is not the case and everything. Perhaps I've taken the bait here but what makes you say that? It is very clearly stated in the power wording of Incap that the damage comes from the attack itself.

There are two possible resolutions to the Incapacitate action, both involving an attack roll. The first, is placing an action token on a target that already has 0 or 1. The second, is dealing the hit target damage instead of the token placement if the target already has 2 tokens.

And this whole thread just furthers my belief that the ruling on Take Down on AVX Cap is wrong.

I most of the time post on here on behalf of my HeroClix community. There is one player I refer to as "my crazy friend", who will argue the simplist of common sense rules. I'm beginning to think he just tries to get away with things and does what ever he wants, then when corrected, argues and inteprets things his own way and makes up rules, etc. It's so hard and frustrating with him I feel like giving up on him once in a while. This is what this thread reminds me of lol. You all share and feel my pain lol.

What ruling is that, and why do you think it is wrong?

I am curious as well...

TAKE DOWN:#Captain America can use Incapacitate as if he had 2 targets. When he does and hits 2 characters, he may give one hit character 2 action tokens instead of giving each of them one. If that character can't be given the second action token, deal it 1 penetrating damage instead.

I'm assuming Tirion was wondering if Cap would take the Mystic damage for the portion of the power that gives 1 penetrating damage if the opposing hit character can't be given a 2nd action token. But, who really knows what he or she meant.

It would be no different then regular Incap when a character has 2 token already.

Why does Incapacitate specify it deals no damage then?

Because of it didn't it would deal damage equal to the figure's damage value *as well* as adding a token on a hit?

Or was that supposed to be a (really bad) rhetorical question?

INCAPACITATE: Give this character a close combat or ranged combat action to make an attack that deals no damage. If the attack hits, give the target an action token; if the target already has 2 action tokens, deal the target 1 penetrating damage.

Im just wondering, if incap says deals no damage, why would the second action token placed activate the mystics? The action token in not the attack, it is placed due to a successful attack. Because no damage is dealt from the attack, then there should be no mystics. They should specify that the token is an extension of the attack.

Because it doesn't unless the hit character already has two action tokens, at which point it deals 1 penetrating damage.


We're just talking in circles.

EDIT:
I don't think anyone is saying placing a second token triggers Mystics.

The ruling was that if he targets a character with 2 tokens and hits, he deals 2 penetrating (1 from incap and 1 from his power).

The 2011 rulebook said Energy Explosion dealt no damage, and that one still caused characters to be dealt damage.

That would not change anything for Mystics. From the Player's Guide:

All damage from a single effect is dealt simultaneously, unless otherwise specified. For example if two characters are both hit by the same Energy Explosion or Throw a Grenade attack, all of the damage from that attack is dealt at the same time, so any damage transfer will be combined.

Mystics would still only deal 1 back for the attack.

Incap is not dealing damage when a second token is applied. If the character cannot use Willpower, then it takes a click of pushing damage. That source of damage is from the push and not the attack and it does not trigger Mystics.

Incap only deals damage if used against a target that *already* has two tokens. In THAT case the damage IS coming from the attack made with Incap and therefor triggers Mystics.

I'm not going to argue that "No Damage" is a misleading term, but it's a game term and has a specific definition.
It's used to specify that you modifying your damage value won't matter if you hit and that extra damage from a Critical Hit won't apply.

Incap is a "No Damage" attack in that the attacker's damage value is irrelevant for the duration of the attack and a crit hit won't do extra damage. Incap can itself still do damage via the specific condition of successfully hitting a target that already has two tokens. Just like Energy Explosion used to be a "no damage" attack because you weren't using the attacker's damage value for that either.

You can quibble about whether or not that's a good term or a misleading term, but it is what it is. A character that has Invincibility only reduces the damage they take by two (assuming it's not being bypassed altogether) so you could argue about that being a misleading term as well. But it wouldn't accomplish much.

Sometimes you just have to learn the terms, know how to apply them, and move on.

Yeah, Incap may seem counterintuitive with it being a "no damage" attack that can potentially deal damage, but that is only really a hang up if you don't read the whole power. It tells you exactly what condition must be in place for it to deal damage after all. It's not obscure or hidden.



If you use Incap to hit a target with two tokens, then the target takes a click of damage.

If you do this to a Mystic, then it meets the qualifications for triggering Mystics.

Argue about the whys and wherefores if you wish, but that's how it works.