I did read your post. And since I've been saying the same thing since my very first post, the only conclusion I can come to is that you're not really reading anything I say (hence my last post):

See my very first post:

Nothing in the written rules specifically says that these things can't happen either.


All on its own, the absence of something isn't enough to formulate a rule (For example, the rules also don't say anything about kicking your opponent in the shins, but I bet most of wouldn't try that).

But it is pretty hard for a ruling to be contradicted by something that doesn't exist, too. So, since the rules doesn't speficially say that Norm's proposed ruling can't happen, there is no reason why that ruling can't be made.

And that's really the point. Trying to do something and doing something are two different things.

I understand what you are saying, I debate the logic.

I try to tighten screw, however screw is already at max tightness

Therefore it follows that the screw tightening took place, <-break in logic, you tried, and failed because "screw is already at max tightness" therefore screw was NOT tightened, because:

however because the screw was at max tightness it just couldn't be tightened any more.

That doesn't mean that I didn't try to tighten it You tried. Try != do.

This argument is nearly exactly the same as:

Superman takes an action to use hypersonic speed, Kid Flash says "other character cannot use hypersonic speed" and you give your superman a token saying you tried and failed, and then using that try to activate a power that says "when you use hypersonic speed..."


Incidently, I feel like norm is missing the whole argument about the rules. Unless you are debating whether you can make a ruling about this issue.

That really is the point I think. Healing net 0 or net 3 is still healing. It's doing something and doing something.

Or rather, I'm not understanding you. Just because someone writes something doesn't mean it is understood.

Repeating yourself doesn't help me understand you. Try reframing your post in a different way to help me (the reader) to understand what you are trying to convey. When I read that sentence I think it means that you believe that the written rules can go either way on this. But you said that is not what you mean. Help me the reader understand you.

As I argued before, the rules are in conflict with nbperp's proposed clarification (other than the fact that the clarification will be a rule.)

Healing 0 is not healing. Healing requires clicking.

Well it might have gotten lost in the translation of trying to make a humorous real world example of a game example.

I'll make it clearer:

1. When using xxx power, heal this character of yyy damage
2. A character cannot be healed beyond it's first click
This logically does not lead to a character on it's first click cannot be healed, it's leads simply to a character cannot be healed beyond it's first click. I still argue the healing takes place with a net heal of 0.

The problem is you can't be damage when your dead or K.O'd But you can be healed (even if you dont actually heal a click) when your at full life.

If im at full life and Nurse uses support and I get 1 click of healing Its still a successful heal even if it doesn't actually heal me. And there lay's the problem, you are successfully healed even if you dont heal a click.

Which makes me think that the person gets a token

You're not looking at the whole thing.

From the Blackest Night Glossary:
To heal, you must restore health. There must have been damage taken. You must click the combat dial.

You can't only look at one part of the rules and say that's it...done with the argument. If it was that easy, I could move through hindering terrain without stopping because Page 3 of the rules says I can move anywhere.

Being healed and using Support are two different things. Nurse can use Support on a character that is on its first click. The Support roll can be successful. Nurse will get a token for using Support. But the character on its first click will not be healed.

No that's right Questions, I noticed it before when it was posted and that's obviously the crux of the argument against healing/steal energy etc. on your first click ("restoring health that has been reduced by damage"), if that is the end-all definition of healing. But I still feel that healing takes place, because you can use Support targeting a fig on it's first click. You still have to land the attack, you can still critically miss and damage the fig, but if successful the Support will land however it just won't heal past the first click.

That isn't where it breaks. It breaks in the definition of what healing is.

Healing is defined as turning the dial counterclockwise.

"heal character x clicks"

"a character cannot be healed beyond its first click"

+ "healing=turning the dial counterclockwise"

Let us interlay the rules by replacing relevant references to rules with the rules text to make one statement referring to the situation:

Edit: For the purpose of throughness:

Red=Steal Energy text
Blue=Healing text
Purple = Healing text referencing itself.

Should seem pretty clear now. I haven't even paraphrased of changed any words.

Also, as questions said, Support, Steal Energy, and Healing are separate things separately defined.

I can make a Close Combat Attack, and have it be Evaded, and never actually Deal Damage.

I can also make a Support action, and have it be Miss or Critically fail or never actually Heal a Hit target.

That is what a glossary is suppose to do.

If that was a good argument then I should automatically damage a character with Invulnerability if I roll a critical hit even if I only have a 1 damage value. I took the risk. I still have to land the attack. I can still critically miss and damage my own character. But that is not the rule.

No one is making you use Support on a character on its first click. If you were forced to, I might agree. But that's a decision you're making of your own choice so you take the risk and get no reward (normally) if you succeed.

By the way, I still agree the Support was successful. You just don't heal. Successful Support does not always mean healing. Won't heal (your words) means no healing.

I don't follow the invulnerability part. I was just simply stating that I believe a fig can be successfully Supported and healed on the first click. But the only net results will be 0 healing (if successful, or if the Support roll misses) or -1 (if the Support roll is a critical miss). I also was not saying anyone would make a person use Support on a character on its first click. It can be done however. I still believe the Support would be successful, and healing would take place it would just be reduced to 0 if on the first click. It's the same as healing 3 on the second click is reduced to 1.

And maybe you are taking one thing out of context here: "Won't heal (your words) means no healing."
Actually I said "...if successful the Support will land however it just won't heal past the first click."
I think the healing is taking place however it will not heal past the first click.

Thanks for the response Dremak. However I don't think Healing= turning the dial counterclockwise, I believe the turning the dial counterclockwise is a result of healing. Healing on the first click just means you'll be definitely turning the dial counterclockwise less times than on any other click you might be healed on.

Yet the glossary clearly says that healing does equal turning the dial.

"HEALING
Characters can have their damage healed through the use of powers like Regeneration, Steal Energy, and Support, as well as through other game effects. When a character is healed of damage, turn its combat dial counterclockwise a number of times equal to the damage healed. A character can’t heal beyond its starting line. A character with multiple starting lines can’t be healed beyond the starting line that it began with in a particular game."

I'm playing a match. I forget which one of my figs got injured but I think it's R Thor. I don't know his dial at all. I attempt to Support R Thor with Diana Prince. The Support roll is successful, which heals R Thor for 3 damage. To be clear, R Thor is being healed of 3 damage. I start to turn R Thor's dial and see that he is on his first click, which he cannot be healed past. So to summarize R Thor has been healed of 3 damage, but since he is on his first click the net result is 0 but the heal still took place following these steps outlined in the HEALING paragraph I took from Dremak above who I'm guessing took it from the rulebook.