Your right, no one is likely to abuse this rule in any significant fashion. I'm not too concerned about this rule being abused as I am concerned that it was written in a manner that can be abused. Rules are written with an intent. If the rule written can be used in manner beyond it's intent it needs to rewritten. That misuse may never happen. But better that no opportunity for the misuse exist in the first place.

It's actually not *that* hard. You simply focus on letting 'Mechs shoot better, as opposed to base/charge/h2h better.

Here's a few alternatives, where one of the focuses was just that:
http://members.shaw.ca/mwrules/scen1.html

Because I believe the aim should be to bring *most* 'Mechs back, not just one uber-'Mech.

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The point is that whether this is CBT or MWDA, either universe clearly implies that 'Mechs are the ULTIMATE machines of war. Period. Why is it such a problem that they should be better than everything else???

Um.. how about Game Balance? :)

I dispute your statement, because MWDA has always been about *combined arms*. (something which is failing currently, because 'Mechs are left out.)

Look to CBT or Solaris if you want nothing but 'Mech on 'Mech action.

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I'll reinforce his results.
I played my usual army 300pt no-'Mech army with a couple reserves, additions, and upgrades, and easily took down a 'Mech army in less than 20 minutes.
Salvaged one and captured two others.

Against a more balanced force it's a bit more difficult, but the 'Mechs aren't any better, really. See my other posts for a detailed analysis on that.

D'oh! You're right, of course...when I wrote that, I was for some reason thinking that Command was only on a 6, like Awe, not a 5 or a 6.

Geeze, and I have a degree in math. :rolleyes:

For the ability to shoot out of base contact (at the link you provided), that rule only works well if you also implement the alternate capture rule that's there too. Otherwise, great, you're firing out of base, but you're still getting captured too easily.

You're definitely right that the aim should be to bring MOST 'Mechs back, but I'm not sure how shake-off damage ONLY benefits Arnis...I thought it DID help all 'Mechs.

But your last argument doesn't stand up, I think. Under current rules, 'Mechs are STILL disfavoured, even with shake-off applied as-is. Shake-off does nothing against VTOLs or tank drop (which, admittedly, is less useable in 450-point games).

And whether or not the game is about combined arms (a claim which I don't dispute), the fact of the matter is that even in MWDA, 'Mechs are supposed to be the very best units. Balance has nothing to do with it. They could be the best units and still be balanced. They could be the best units and still have trouble with fast-moving VTOLs, or artillery, in some cases. But they AREN'T the best units, and that's whoooooole problem. Always has been.

Yup, that was definitely an important point of those changes as a whole. (You've gained some of my respect by noticing that.)

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You're definitely right that the aim should be to bring MOST 'Mechs back, but I'm not sure how shake-off damage ONLY benefits Arnis...I thought it DID help all 'Mechs.

Yes, but it helps those with Evade or JJ more than others. And it's a small help across the board.
So since the current king of all 'Mechs has Evade, it's getting the best boost out of this.
Which means people will still only play the best 'Mech.

Since 'Mechs within their own division are currently inbalanced, it means that any change aimed at bringing back more than just the best 'Mech needs to be an uneven change. Aimed at helping all 'Mechs a little bit, but shooting 'Mechs even more.
(IMO, of course.)

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But your last argument doesn't stand up, I think. Under current rules, 'Mechs are STILL disfavoured, even with shake-off applied as-is. Shake-off does nothing against VTOLs or tank drop (which, admittedly, is less useable in 450-point games).

Shake off does little against infantry, too.
Which argument are you talking about? I agree with you, 'Mechs are still disfavoured (which is why I'm sad that people are so happy with the changes).
I don't dispute that 'Mechs should be better than they are, but they shouldn't be able to single handedly defeat thousands of points of other units. :)

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And whether or not the game is about combined arms (a claim which I don't dispute), the fact of the matter is that even in MWDA, 'Mechs are supposed to be the very best units. Balance has nothing to do with it. They could be the best units and still be balanced. They could be the best units and still have trouble with fast-moving VTOLs, or artillery, in some cases. But they AREN'T the best units, and that's whoooooole problem. Always has been.

Okay, our definitions of "best" differ, so we're getting into some problems. :)

'Mechs aren't the "ultimate" weapon of war, even in the fiction. They're a mass platform of weapons, which makes them good for a specific purpose. But they're still vulnerable to say.. landmines.

When you said "ULTIMATE" unit, etc, I was reminded of those people who want MWDA to be Solaris.. that is, Mechs and nothing else. But that isn't the game MWDA wants to be.

Currently, one 'Mech can take out one infantry, one tank, or one vtol. So in that respect, they are the best unit. :)
They certainly can't take out all of them at the same time, though, which is a good thing too.

Balance doesn't just mean nerfing things.
Balance means that to make a good army, you'd use a variety of different units, all with different strengths.
Rock-Paper-Scissors is perfectly balanced, for instance, even though Rock beats Scissors 100% of the time.

For 'Mechs to be balanced, they should have a few strengths and a few weaknesses. Right now, they have maybe one strength, and a whole slew of weaknesss. They have absolutely no role in a good army (except "target"), and that's bad.
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Alternative fixes:
http://members.shaw.ca/mwrules/scen1.html