To me the solution is obvious... we can't get new players around here because the combination of players willing to drop hundreds of dollars per expansion on boosters and some lousy rules combine to make it impossible for a new player to stand a chance.

Often times what really drives people away are the uberarmies with multiple Arrow IV's or multiple Balacs or multiple Towed AAA or [insert the latest uberpiece here]. No amount of set retirement is going to give new players access to multiples of these things.

So my solution is first to clean up the rules and advertise those changes. We lost a lot of players here in that period where WizKids was claiming there was nothing wrong with cruising VTOL's blocking line of sight, etc. A lot of that is fixed now, but the players who've abandoned the game don't know that. A lot of people would be willing to come back if they knew changes has been made and that the rules made sense.

Second, reinstitute the Participation LE's. Up the cost to $10 for shipping and handling and instead of stickers or silly things like that require reciepts showing the purchase of X number of boosters in order to redeem the offer. Maybe even tie the Participation LE's soley to the Sealed and Booster Draft events with the receipt from that evening's event being what is needed to obtain your prize.

Third, get some good public relations going with a reinvigorated Approved Play schedule. Require at least one sealed event per month, then offer two campaigns and one head-to-head.

Acknowledge what the real problems in getting new players to stay and invest are and do something about it. Instead of banning sets outright, limit the number of duplicate pieces you can field in any given battleforce. Its a lot easier for a Battlemaster to check that you don't have multiple Arrow IV's than going through a FAQ to see which types of units are legal and which aren't. It also limits the advantage of the uberbuyers over the casual player since no player can field more than one of any particular uberpiece. This even makes sense from a fluff standpoint since the Dark Age is supposedly a time of limited resources. I'd say no more than one of any given Mech or vehicle and no more than five of any given type of infantry. Most of the game-breaking pieces really only become so when fielded in multiples. If a player can be on an even playing field with the veterans by pulling a single good figure from a booster (instead of needing four of them just to compete) I bet they'll be a lot more willing to buy boosters trying to get that piece.

Such a system would also promote trade among the players since multiples aren't as necessary... thus a player can trade with his friends to quickly acquire a faction pure army for relatively low cost.

If you must ban sets, then as a compromise I'd like to see uniques/LE's exempted from this. One of the great things about winning an LE was that it was always useable in any game regardless of set. For collectors the largest portion of their collection's value is going to be their uniques and LE's and doing this would allow them maintain their value. Since they know these particular figures will hold their value it will also encourage them to continue collecting the new uniques/LE's as they come out which means buying more boosters to get them (or buying them from other people who have bought boosters to get them... either way it encourages them to buy boosters rather than abandon their collection of them entirely).

Those are my thoughts at the moment.

What? I have taken some time off the board to see if people will quit whining on their own or not and I have to come back to this ####?

Since when do you know what I am thinking? Since when do you know my motivation for anything? Great to know you are a God, I should present all my future prayers your way???

I started this thread in the hope that if people reasoned this out, they would come to a conclusion that was NOT a Knee-Jerk for once.

Dont EVER put words in my mouth.

Read it again and find where I flame someone.. ok, NOW read this.

Fenris,

You keep looking around for someone to have insulted you and seem to take anything said by anyone in the worst possible way.

Stop it. You are imagining things, and honestly, I am tired of every one of my posts being analysed with the FCF (or Fenris Complaint Factor) in mind. Just so you know, this is NOT an attack of any kind, but you are making things worse.
(scanning...... FCF= 0)

I started this thread, speciifically asking for viable alternatives to set retirement, and have found most of them lacking.

There are some that I would THINK would help, like Faction Purity, but I know for a fact that Wizkids has stated that they would never do that over and over and over (not just at some event that noone was at with like 4 people in the room with the lights turned off like some of their "legally binding contracts." for some reason.

I am not the reason they become flamewars, but like my daddy said, "Don't start fights son, but if you get in one, then finish it.".

Let's see what YOU got ltrain.

How about posting an actuall suggestion of your own opinion instead of just trying to shoot everyone else down around you

I never shot anything down, I just pointed out flaws in it.

My solutions would be too difficult to implement and I am trying to find an easier way to do it. Which is part of wht I started this thread.

Also, James shot me down a couple of times already (once with another format, and did not really answer on my League Play Idea that would include all the old stuff), so I had to restart rather than repeat myself over and over and over and over like some people do (insert parrot Squawk here).

Then with all due respect, and I believe I speak for the rest of the community, could you go a bit easier on everyone? I feel that the atmosphere is a powder keg right now, and all this ####, either real or illusional is going to set it off. I dont hold anything against you, and I respect your opinions as much as the next guys.


But I think we all need to just take a few deep breaths and calm down before we address this problem.

Also: I dont care if anyone criticizes my ideas, as long as its constructive criticisim

<raises hand>
Umm... teacher. What about me? As one of the few (possibly only) people to post on topic, I'd would have liked a response. Instead, I get nothing. Now, since nobody seems to care about the topic and just wants to post their current gripe about retirement, I'm not surprised.

My only disappointment is in Ltrain. He claims that he is looking to explore other ideas. He then promptly ignores an idea after it is posted. Well, I guess it is fair. Hypocricy shouldn't be limited to those who oppose set retirement.

Well, I guess that sorta makes it official. Not a JEBite, not a Warflail disciple, and not a member of KIR.

SYB
Independent and proud of it

Huh?

When have I been hard on anyone? I leave for a while, come back into flames, respond and get called out? Nuts to that.

Look,

That was uncalled for..

Again, I have not been on the boards for a couple of days and was catching up, and frankly I did not respond to your post because I did not make it that far before being flamed and responded to that first.

Again, I am not ignoring your posts or any other ideas, but then again, I did not know I was required to read and evaluate every Idea that was presented, and as such have been a little lax in my "duties". If I read it and feel I need to say something positive or negative, then I will.

Wait, were you talking about your double cost Idea? It was just too unbalanced and figured someone else would point that out.

May as well retire the sets, because they would be used about the same amount if you doubled the costs.

Any other addition of points to the overall cost would be a Headache from a BM standpoint.

Two things:

1> I've deliberately avoided posting anything in this thread for several very good reasons. Dont drag me into it.

2> I dont have disciples and make an active effort to avoid factionalism. So dont accuse me of that either.

That is all I have to say here. Thank you.

ok, it appears as though we have all forgotten the reason why this thread is up. we need to find a way to sell more boosters, without rotating sets. now, new sculpts are all fine and dandy, but how to they convince the core audience (tournament players who have most everything) of this study to buy more packs. the same goes to everyother suggestion made here. if you make a suggestion, qualify it with something other than "I think it would be cool if..." or the equivalant.

Now, wasn't trying to pick on you or anything, just trying to get across (to the thread, not you) that there are a fair number of players who play faction pure, especially in the Storyline events (and in most games, at least here in the middle of nowhere :) )... Heck, my main faction (SH) is not in the base set, so ANY sets that are removed from my "legal" pool of units to pick my army from will hurt a lot... Hopefully this concern will be addressed by more than a snide comment about "chicken-littleisms" before any banning is done... But then we'll be playing "Unrestricted" events for the most part anyway, so it's not really all that big of a deal...

I DO like what they're doing for next Month's Storyline, with 200 points coming from the faction actually being played :) I know I was sick of seeing the BR army of doom every week for a long time there with the token Infantry fig from the faction of the month :) Of course, this is all just my opinion as always...

Oh, and I love your .sig :) My wife is a better target shooter than I am, so I have to laugh at anyone who assumes anything like that....

This is a legit concern but I can help with this. Kelly LOVES factions, and knows there are alot of faction players to keep happy.

I would guess that the first "core" set would be a combo of all the useful but not broken figs from the first few sets with all new uniques. You can save this somewhere if you want so I can crow about it later :)

1. So how many new sculpts/units would do you need per expansion to keep older players buying? It is a moot point in my opinion, because there will always be new additions per set. This does not effect set retirement. Doesn't seem to be such a bigh thing
2. Seems like can't have both arugments from above. If players wnat new sculpts, they don't want to see their 400th uller.
3. Yes there are currently 5 colors that MK uses that MW doesn't. But what would these new SE's be and do we know how they will be effected? From what i hear there will be at least 1 new SE with FP (My source could be wrong though).
4. I like campaign as unrestricted actually (they don't count towards player rankings, so I'm all for that) But we dont' know that this will happen. A year away remember?
5. I like this idea also, but I think it will cause smaller venues to drop this because if you only have 4 players per event, it makes it very expensive for the venues
6. Faction purity? This isn't helped by set retirement, but it does limit cheese players.
[

Quote

Things Retirement will not do. 1) Level the playing field for new players-yeah maybe for a day but, a vet will take a new guy nine times out of ten. 2) Stop power gaming....the ebay warrior will still exist and the cheese will always be found as long as the player who thinks of it is still breathing. 3)It will NOT get WK more buisness look at STORMFOX's poll 70+% will lessen or cease their purchasing. Only six out of the several hundred people polled will buy more.

1. Not true. It makes it more of an even field. (I'm not as idealistic as to say it makes it completely fair. But it makes it 1. more affordable for new players to be competative 2. Makes it easier to know your units, and your opponents by limiting the number of sets out there. 3. It puts a shelf life on any of the "broken" units out there. 4. New players become veteran players by losing. Now if a new player comes in, and sees they only have to invest about $100 to be competative instead of $1000 do you think he will come back? I think there are better odds of the player investing his $100, and then playing armies that have the same pool to choose from, than the player who buys a starter, and has no chance of being competative EVER.

2. yes it won't stop power gaming, but it will make it more difficult for the power gamer to keep up. It sucks when a player comes in with units 6 expanisons old and whips your butt with those old power units. By having a built in shelf life, these uber units will cycle out of the game in time. There does not need to be a "banned" unit list. Just like above, it has always existed in almost any game, and will continue to do so. This limits it somewhat just like #1 does.

3. I didn't know stormfox's poll could actually reach out and get replies from potential MW players, or future new players. 1. That poll is in no way scientific enough to have any validity. 2. Taht poll is posted on a support site. 3. that poll doesn't take into account the number of people who were already leaving the game, or restricting their buying habits due to percieved weakness in the game in terms of the rules, game mechanics, diminishing prize support. Take those into account, and you will lose a lot of individuals from that 70% majority people keep talking about.

If you want any type of scientific poll, then email every one on wizkids site with about a dozen questions, tabulate the data indepentently and then present it. I'd wager a weeks pay, your number of upset players is no where near 70%. Especially if you take proper questioning procedures.
I'd say it is closer to 40% upset over the idea of set retirement, and 20% who will leave the game over it.

1. So how many new sculpts/units would do you need per expansion to keep older players buying? It is a moot point in my opinion, because there will always be new additions per set. This does not effect set retirement. Doesn't seem to be such a bigh thing
2. Seems like can't have both arugments from above. If players wnat new sculpts, they don't want to see their 400th uller.
3. Yes there are currently 5 colors that MK uses that MW doesn't. But what would these new SE's be and do we know how they will be effected? From what i hear there will be at least 1 new SE with FP (My source could be wrong though).
4. I like campaign as unrestricted actually (they don't count towards player rankings, so I'm all for that) But we dont' know that this will happen. A year away remember?
5. I like this idea also, but I think it will cause smaller venues to drop this because if you only have 4 players per event, it makes it very expensive for the venues
6. Faction purity? This isn't helped by set retirement, but it does limit cheese players.
[

Quote

Things Retirement will not do. 1) Level the playing field for new players-yeah maybe for a day but, a vet will take a new guy nine times out of ten. 2) Stop power gaming....the ebay warrior will still exist and the cheese will always be found as long as the player who thinks of it is still breathing. 3)It will NOT get WK more buisness look at STORMFOX's poll 70+% will lessen or cease their purchasing. Only six out of the several hundred people polled will buy more.

1. Not true. It makes it more of an even field. (I'm not as idealistic as to say it makes it completely fair. But it makes it 1. more affordable for new players to be competative 2. Makes it easier to know your units, and your opponents by limiting the number of sets out there. 3. It puts a shelf life on any of the "broken" units out there. 4. New players become veteran players by losing. Now if a new player comes in, and sees they only have to invest about $100 to be competative instead of $1000 do you think he will come back? I think there are better odds of the player investing his $100, and then playing armies that have the same pool to choose from, than the player who buys a starter, and has no chance of being competative EVER.

2. yes it won't stop power gaming, but it will make it more difficult for the power gamer to keep up. It sucks when a player comes in with units 6 expanisons old and whips your butt with those old power units. By having a built in shelf life, these uber units will cycle out of the game in time. There does not need to be a "banned" unit list. Just like above, it has always existed in almost any game, and will continue to do so. This limits it somewhat just like #1 does.

3. I didn't know stormfox's poll could actually reach out and get replies from potential MW players, or future new players. 1. That poll is in no way scientific enough to have any validity. 2. Taht poll is posted on a support site. 3. that poll doesn't take into account the number of people who were already leaving the game, or restricting their buying habits due to percieved weakness in the game in terms of the rules, game mechanics, diminishing prize support. Take those into account, and you will lose a lot of individuals from that 70% majority people keep talking about.

If you want any type of scientific poll, then email every one on wizkids site with about a dozen questions, tabulate the data indepentently and then present it. I'd wager a weeks pay, your number of upset players is no where near 70%. Especially if you take proper questioning procedures.
I'd say it is closer to 40% upset over the idea of set retirement, and 20% who will leave the game over it.