i was there. i saw it. he cheated. anyone who was there and saw it would agree with me. i don't understand what the rest of you, who weren't there and are still skeptical, want. the guy cheated. and cheating sucks for everyone.

i feel bad for his teammates. what a wasted trip.


Billy Zonos


P.S. Dave Spears is the worst top 8 player in the WORLD! who gets greedy against Mike Dalton? WTBARN?!?!? :p

While I was on the fence about this since I first read it earlier today, now that we've gotten official reports not only from metagame but from people who actually witnessed the incident, I've got to say that I'm rather dissappointed in Hans. It really just boggles my mind that someone can build themselves such a rep, then just risk getting it all tossed away on a stupid play that they thought they'd get away with. I hope they throw the (comic) book at him.

Dave, your response was probably one of the best non-article pieces I've ever read on the realms. Congrats on making t8 for the second consecutive PC.

First off... reading off of Alex's (EDGE23432353224) posts is funny because he wasn't even there. In fact, neither was the other Alex (A-Rod) but at least he's not bashing Hans like a pinata.

Secondly... there are no allegations here. According to the people who witnessed it and the UDE officials, it was cheating. They will investigate further as indicated by Tim's article but it seems pretty obvious that at the very least, the DQ no prize was warranted. Everyone asks why UDE doesn't take a hard line against cheaters and now they have.

Third: As much as this single incident can scar a person's reputation for the rest of his game-playing career... let's not turn this into broad generalizations about his personality unless you know him.

Finally. as Alex mentioned his antics following the incident, although it could be seen as irreverant behavior, we just don't know for sure. I was observing him walking around the gaming area and it seemed to me like he was carrying on like nothing happened. But... that may be the way he handles things. Maybe he was laughing at himself for doing such a stupid thing at the top 8 and costing himself quite a bit of money. Maybe Hans will explain himself. I just think all this bashing really proves that people enjoy the misery of others (including the other thread of Aaron Weil bashing) and it really is uncalled for.

Well spoken erick.

People who weren't there should keep their own opinions to themselves until UDE is done with their investigations. The full story isn't out yet and we haven't heard from Hans himself so let's just wait and see.

Intentional cheating or not, it has definitely warned me of one thing. If Hans is still allowed to play, I'm playing the safe route and making sure a judge is watching our match...

Not because I suspect he'll switch resources. That's what my own eyes are for. I want a judge at my table if I'm playing against someone who's going to make a lot of petty calls against me throughout a game.

Does his disqualification bump anyone up in the standings either ranking or money wise?

How many other times has this punishment been given for cheating?

Thanks!
Brian Poole

I really want to give Hoh the benfit of the doubt.

As i was walking around the feature match area with the Zonos man. I had actually been watching this match when this dispute had been going on, i couldnt hear what was actually going on but only saw the archer and the shape within his resource row. i hadnt watched the entire game so i was oblivious on what was going on. i got bored on not knowing so i left. its obvious he got this when i left. how sad. o well.

I believe Dave Spears moved up a place, and $1000 because of it. I would assume a couple other people did as well, but I am not sure.

I think this is Vs's first time. At least for large events, I am sure people have been booted from some PCQ's, but I do not remember reading anything like this from any 10k/PC Coverage.

Man, I read thru this situation several times, and I can't see why in the world the guy would make that play... Maybe he thought he was the Flash or something and moved so fast no one could see him. :)


I have no doubt there is even more cheating going on at some of these events. There is a saying for every rat that you see there are 20 more you don't. Cheating may be too strong of a word ... collusion is more like it. I've have people stand around when I'm playing, obviously pals with my opponent, and in full view of my hand who are probably signaling my opponent. I've had to tell a few to stop talking and let us play.

I've thought of entering my ten-year-old daughter in a sneak preview, but I would have to help her build her deck, and I would consider that to be collusion with another player. How hard would it be to "use" one of her cards instead to make a better sealed pack deck? It essentially gives us two shots at winning, instead of one, which isn't fair for everyone else there.

My wife and I used to go to trivia night (in our child-less days) at bars and we would see people with almanacs and all sorts of things to give themselves advantages when playing bar trivia. C'mon, folks... this is bar trivia... the prize was usually $25 in "bar money". I know UDE's prizes are pretty hefty, but how far are some people willing to go to win?

Synth

En-Kur:

That was the best piece of non article work I've seen from the Vs. community. Your dedication to the game and community is to be commended.

As far as the whole situation is concerned I'll say this (mind you I'm a nobody):

"If it walks like a duck..."

CC

I can give you my word right now that nobody is going to give a hoot about you helping your ten year-old n00b daughter build her sealed deck. They will in fact expect you to do so. Anyone with any sense would be happy you are bringing someone new into the game.

Taking your daughter's card and using it in your own deck on the other hand would, yes, make you a huge wanker. It would also make you a bad father, as you would be teaching your kid to be dishonest for personal gain.

If you really think this is something you would be tempted to do, I think the answer might be to consult a psychiatrist or someone similar rather than stop enjoying time with your daughter (I'm not making fun of you, I just can't imagine you as an apparently otherwise decent father doing something like that). Feel free to talk to Kim at a convention; she's a qualified psychoguru-type and will explain how it all relates to your innate sexual attraction to margaret thatcher and fear of mushrooms.

Really you have provided two examples and they are of completely different things. #1 is helping your daughter out when she is learning how to build decks. #2 is asshattery of the highest order. I think anyone you play with could make the moral distinction. Take your daughter with you and have some fun.

Him too? And I thought I was the only one. Maggie is one saucy little minx, isn't she?

OK - my 2/100s of a buck:

If UDE felt that the penalty was warranted based on the circumstances, far be it from ME to say it was a bad call.

And (this is a general statement, not a statement about the specific instance this thread is dedicated to) I have no problem with UDE being as harsh as they want with cheating when they find it. This includes DQing, Banning - really everything up to actually taking a hand off the cheater with a white-hot blade.

If UDE fails to maintain the integrity of its game, its organized play, and its Pro Circuit even once when it knows of something that damages it, it will take 10 times as long to build that reputation up again. And no one wants to play a game competitively where cheaters are allowed to flourish.

-S

Yes, but it becomes the issue that so many politicians have to deal with ... 'perceived' conflict of interest.

It isn't that he's TEMPTED to swap cards to improve both of their decks. It's that he COULD do it ... and thus other people may frown on the practice simply by how easy it would be for cheating to take place. Just because it would be a scummy mood to do that with a daughter ... cheating in general is seen as such a scummy move anyway, so why not do it the scummiest way possible ... and maybe no one will even consider that someone would go that low, etc ...

But basically ... it could mean the difference between a 'casual' sealed event and a 'strict' sealed event where all the packs are opened, written down, passed, etc. That would be enough to ensure he 'couldn't' trade cards with his daughter and get away with it ... which would do a lot towards allaying any fears that he was doing anything more than 'just' helping his daughter with her sealed pack.

Just because most people expect that most people won't cheat doesn't mean that there aren't going to be some [rightfully in some cases] paranoid people at tournaments. Just like some people feel the need to cheat, other people recognise at least 'why' those people might want to cheat ... and for the same reason those people want to cheat [to win], the other people don't want to let them get away with it. [Well, there's lots of other reasons too to not want cheating, of course].