Hate hate hate hate hate!!


I am glad that he lost his prize money for cheating. That means not only did he not win anything for coming here ... he lost all that time it took to wiggle into the top 8, thus missing any sealed chances of fun ... AND, THE KICKER, he lost all that money for a plane ticket from Germany, wich I assume is a lot of money

ha! I think that is fantastic. Now if that they can somehow get these penalties to stick to Roy "the teflon cheater" St. Claire the Vs. community would be all set.


in and out:
strider119

Especially since I sarted to loose my hairs a while ago. :p

To be more serious, as there are a lot of "non english speaking" people in europe, we took quite a while to understand what happened exactely and a lot of people are talking about this fact without exactely knowing what happened because simply the story is spreading all over the community like fire and everybody start to argue without all the informations.

I don't know personnaly the player nor I have any interest in taking his defence.
But there is a fact I don't understand, you are playing at the TOP4 of a major event at an international level, you have like 2 or 3 judges on your back and a lot of people that are watching you....... I'cannot understand how and why a player can intentionaly cheat under those circumstances. I do want to beleive that there is some sort of misunderstandind in that story during the chain resolution or something, I cannot imagine the player changing a ressourse like "hey look at the blond girl over there !!" hop "à la ninja" I swap 2 ressources....
I think we should wait for some sort of explanations from the player or the officials at least he deserve à "right to answer".

My 2 euros.

>It isn't that he's TEMPTED to swap cards to improve both of >their decks. It's that he COULD do it ...

Exactly. I wouldn't do it, but it would be very easy.

(FYI - If I ever did do this, I would give her my good cards... she's luckier than me in this game!)

During sneak previews, there is no check to check to see if you played the cards that were actually in your packs. What is to stop two players from swapping cards during the 30 minute deck-build time? Nothing. Players have sealed-play ratings and it would be easy to gain slight advantages during this type of play.

What beyond random deck checks keeps people from slipping in cards into constructed decks as they are needed? Who needs a sideboard when you have a Flame Trap, NTZ, SB or whatever you need up your sleeve? Jeez... cheating at cards is old as the hills.

Hans deserved the DQ, and I know there is more cheating out there than has been caught.

Synth

Help your daughter. Lord knows that we need more chicks in the game. I mean there are some hot guys, but chicks. Yeah! I know she's 10, but one day she won't be. Would you rather look across the table at some shabby hairy guy, or be distracted by a nice looking young lady?

I started my son when he was 8. At pre-releases I would quickly help him build his deck, and no one ever complained. Then when we got a box, I would sit down with him and open 5 packs and talk about what cards should be played and why. Now he's 10. He now builds his own sealed decks, even at PCQ's. He's not great yet, but he does when some games at PCQs.

Help your daughter, then teach her. It'll be worth it.

What kind of muppet actually cheats at a ccg?

If they want to discourage it, then don't offer stupid money prizes!

Unless you are disputing that Hans replaced a resource, we do know what happened. We don't know intentions, but that is irrelevant.
Intent to cheat can not be the measure to determine if someone is cheating. Barring telepathy, no one but Hans knows his intent. So if you say that we can't call what he did cheating until we know why he did what he did than we can never call anything cheating.
In order to be able to prevent cheating in this game, cheating has to be defined by observable behaviors. If this means people who make mistakes get DQ for cheating I am ok with that. For one thing, unless a player gets banned for life they can always come back and repair their reputation over time. For another, who wants people who win by claiming to not understand the rules to be in the upper levels of VS play?

Just drop it , and leave it at this


* most people will do anything to win when $$$ is on the line *
ive seen so many people get greedy and cheat if they think it will get them closer to $$$ especially 33,000$$ more in this situation.

another thing i can advise to all dont trust anyone . even people you think are nice and good are usually the ones that are cheating to win. Trust me on this I have seen it over 100 times in 7 years . Just remember with $$ comes Greed and with greed comes what I like to call CHEATING .


The only question left is DO YOU BAN HIM or not from sanctioned play . I say yes , one more cheater and dishonest person down.

The guy had a card returned to hand.

He then swtched that card with a card in his resource row.


That is cheating and that was intentional and I am SOOOOO glad he got no money. Reading that yesterday was the best news I got all weekend.

I loved the fact that he tried to say he though golden archers text let him do that, or some nonsense like that. Like you get to the top 8 of a Pro Circuit event and then magically forget what cards in your deck do or how the game works.

He is an established high level player, so ignorance is not a good defense in his case.

I think they should retroactively give everyone he beat in that tournament thier rating points back as well. Who knows how many times he pulled this crap.



does the pay scale now slide upwards? like every person who got money gets to slide up 1 spot? Because if that is the case, silverman should be ecstatic ... he got the whammy at 76.

I hope that is the case, everyone else should profit at this cheaters exspense.



sho'nuff:
strider119

I can understand mis-plays and misunderstanding cards. Not a problem.

At the Atlanta 10K, I played against someone who must have been caught up in the heat of the moment because he played a Savage Beatdown before turn 4 (with no PT cost reducers in sight). I pointed out that he couldn't play that and we did a "rewind" on the game to fix the problem. I didn't call a judge for cheating or whatever. It was an error. (I lost the match anyway..)

Looking at what Mr. Hoh did, I can't see how that could happen accidentally. If it wasn't cheating it was a bad error in play and should be DQed anyway.

Synth

I'd just like to remind everyone that this thread is about the situation with Hans Hoh, which is an officially announced and documented situation of misconduct,

Please discontinue discussion of other people and situations.

He took the Titans spot in the top 8 and he deserves what he's getting...

Come on guy's, let's burn him, cut his hairs (I insist on that point I'm bald) and put him in tar with feathers. What make me laugh, is that I'm playing TCG since the early beginning of MTG (yes I'm 36 wth 3 kids) I've seen a hundred of cheaters during tournaments, I have made mistakes that made me win and realise later at home that I was wrong.... You have a guy that is supposed to have cheat and everybody is flamming him, you're all so happy to have catch someone for once, let's make an exemple !! that is just :confused: ...
I think the problems of cheating should not be publics, most of us where not there, I don't judge the fact, because simply we'll never know if it was intentional or not, I have seen player's reputation ruined only based on a rumor. Hans was sucessful at some events so the better the player is the better you are happy and then from the status of a great player he became only a poor cheater that have won ALL the tournament by cheating.
I could follow the group telling that we need to ban him forever.... and then if UDE come back on the decision what you will do?
I'm a casual player now and I don't care but in the whole pack of the people that are arguing here there are cheater, not even for money but for a playmat or 2 more boosters....
The guy may have cheat, if it's the case he's already punished and will be burned in the VS community, being happy of that or justifying the succes of that player on that fact is a pure Looser attitude.
I feel pretty sad of the story but that does not bring any anger or hapiness.

Pardon my english, and no I'm not a fan of Hans or whatever you may trhink.

Hans is one of my favorite players of the tournament scene (along with Michael Jacob), so this whole story makes me really sad.

I agree he had to be DQd, but I don't think his reputation should be ruined for that. Under the pressure of a tournament, you can do lots of weird things without noticing. I once searched my graveyard instead of my deck for a card, and didn't realize until the next turn. I have turned face up an opponent's resource to see what it was, just in an mindless impulse. I have taken cards from my opponent into my deck at the end of a match (and got a deserved game loss in the following game, after realizing my blunder too late).

I think pressure can make you do weird things if you dont keep your cool, and even if you had no intention to cheat, try to explain that when money is on the line. Even if UDE can't give someone the benefit of doubt during a tournament, I think us, the VS community, should.

Except of course:

(a) How many times is there a situation where you get a card bounced into your hand while a recruitment of a Reservist is waiting to resolve? Outside of Reign, is there any other effect that bounces something to hand that people pack? It's not a common situation.

(b) It was day 3 of an PC, he had played 19 games the previous two days, as well as drafting three different decks. Many people have mentioned the endurance aspect of the game ... I doubt anyone is at their 'sharpest' on the third day of the event.

I'm not saying that he didn't cheat, etc ... but the reports of his unsportsmanlike behaviour AND his cheating that he got caught for and DQ'ed for ... could in part be a result of a combination of fatigue from a 3 day event combined with pressure from big money situations. [Especially if he was in a bad match up, as the reports also seem to indicate]. It doesn't excuse his cheating ... but it would EXPLAIN the 'crabbiness' of calling a judge on his opponent ... not to mention why he would even consider the swapping a resource while being watched so closely.

Explanation doesn't equal excuse, he should and did get DQ'ed ... whether more punishment is in order is up to UDE.

However, saying that a high level player should not be able to make a play mistake is a little naive ... EVERYONE can make mistakes, and after 2 FULL days of card playing ... there is no way they can be mentally 100% on day 3 ...

On the other hand, acting like a jerk should not be tolerated. That is the kind of behaviour that should be punished more often.